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Old 08-10-2011, 12:55 PM   #76
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1) I don't get to choose, that's a problem
2) I don't want to make life easier for publishers...if they want my money, they'll give what I want. If they don't want my money, I'll keep it.
3) How is the Henry Ford "You can have any color you want as long as it's black" motto making it easier for the consumer? It was only "easy" for Henry Ford.
If we had ePub as the format, it would not be such an issue if say Amazon did not have a specific eBook you were looking for as you'd be able to got o say BooksOnBoard and buy it in ePub and use it in your Kindle. Amazon's exclusive deals would not be so bad for eBooks.

1. You should get to choose what reader you want without fear of losing your library.
2. Making it easier on the publisher might make it better for us. I'm hoping that instead of having to make Mobipocket copies, they can devote that effot to making better proofed eBooks.
3. This is different. ePub is the best format we currently have for eBooks. Mobipocket is not it. So not having Mobipocket would not be an issue. We don't need it. ePub can do everything Mobipocket can do to display eBooks on a screen. in fact, ePub can do more.

If someone said, we'll can offer you ta Ford Focus or a Lexus at the same price, would you really buy the Ford? Sure the Ford will get you from point a to point b and back, but the Lexus will do it in more comfort and style. That's what this argument is about. We have two formats. One better then the other and both are the same price. Why would you choose the lesser of the two on purpose? Sure Mobipocket can display the text of an eBook mostly OK. But there are cases where it falls down flat. ePub doesn't fall flat in those cases. Take a simple graphic. In Mobipocket, it has to be on it's own. No text on either side. But ePub can have text around the graphic and it can look nicer. A blockquote in Mobipocket only has a left margin. In ePub it has left and right margins. Face it, Mobipocket has issues that ePub has solved. So why hang onto it when a better solution exists?
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:04 PM   #77
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If we had ePub as the format, it would not be such an issue if say Amazon did not have a specific eBook you were looking for as you'd be able to got o say BooksOnBoard and buy it in ePub and use it in your Kindle. Amazon's exclusive deals would not be so bad for eBooks.

1. You should get to choose what reader you want without fear of losing your library.
2. Making it easier on the publisher might make it better for us. I'm hoping that instead of having to make Mobipocket copies, they can devote that effot to making better proofed eBooks.
3. This is different. ePub is the best format we currently have for eBooks. Mobipocket is not it. So not having Mobipocket would not be an issue. We don't need it. ePub can do everything Mobipocket can do to display eBooks on a screen. in fact, ePub can do more.

If someone said, we'll can offer you ta Ford Focus or a Lexus at the same price, would you really buy the Ford? Sure the Ford will get you from point a to point b and back, but the Lexus will do it in more comfort and style. That's what this argument is about. We have two formats. One better then the other and both are the same price. Why would you choose the lesser of the two on purpose? Sure Mobipocket can display the text of an eBook mostly OK. But there are cases where it falls down flat. ePub doesn't fall flat in those cases. Take a simple graphic. In Mobipocket, it has to be on it's own. No text on either side. But ePub can have text around the graphic and it can look nicer. A blockquote in Mobipocket only has a left margin. In ePub it has left and right margins. Face it, Mobipocket has issues that ePub has solved. So why hang onto it when a better solution exists?
Again (and again), your definition of "better" is subjective. It's better for you? Fantastic, I'm glad you're happy with it. Jon, you preach ePub like it's the true religion. I'm agnostic...so you can just save someone else's "soul," okay?
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:15 PM   #78
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Again (and again), your definition of "better" is subjective. It's better for you? Fantastic, I'm glad you're happy with it. Jon, you preach ePub like it's the true religion. I'm agnostic...so you can just save someone else's "soul," okay?
My definition of better is correct. What makes Mobipocket better then ePub? What can Mobipocket do for the eBook that ePub cannot?
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:20 PM   #79
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Kindles are not as popular outside the US as you seem to think it is. ePub is the format outside the USA.
Wrong!

Most people know and recognize a Kindle in Colombia. El Tiempo, the most important newspaper there, has a Kindle version, and iPad version too.

When I mention Sony readers, they have no idea what I am talking about. As a matter of fact, they are so expensive (Sony readers) that are being sold on selected cities and stores only, not the same for Kindle.

The price of a Sony ereader is the equivalent to 1 or 2 months of salary for a regular Colombian worker. Yeah, we're a poor country, but that should give you an idea that prices are also important when getting a new ereader, hence the popularity of Kindle, which is not a bad device at a very competitive price.

Moreover, my friends there they don't even know the differences or talk about file formats, as long as they can use or read their books on their Kindle.

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Old 08-10-2011, 01:33 PM   #80
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My definition of better is correct.
Pardon? Sometimes I think you have to be snarking, Jon.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:38 PM   #81
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Pardon? Sometimes I think you have to be snarking, Jon.
You keep ignoring my question. I think you just don't want to answer because you know I am correct.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:45 PM   #82
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You keep ignoring my question. I think you just don't want to answer because you know I am correct.

Once again, Mobi does exactly what I need. I don't want text around illustrations. I can zoom the illustration to the full size of the screen. I don't need block quotes. I have everything I need. If ePub is offering features I don't need, it is most certainly not better for me. You must be in sales, Jon...you don't take "no" for an answer.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:52 PM   #83
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By the way, Jon, here's your word-of-the-day from Dictionary.com:

sub·jec·tive   [suhb-jek-tiv]
adjective
1.
existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought ( opposed to objective).
2.
pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.
3.
placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.

Now, saying one of two reasonably equivalent items or choices is "better" is subjective.
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Old 08-10-2011, 01:56 PM   #84
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Most new readers do have a dictionary. I know it's not part of the standard. But they've made it work. Sony, Kobo, B&N. etc. So while it's not part of the spec, it works.
Sorry, but that's true only if you are English native. I'm waiting for French-French dictionaries, Spanish-Spanish (DRAE or María Moliner, as you have in Mobipocket), or the ability to add more dictionaries if I want to learn Polish, for example.

While I can't do that, ePub lacks a big feature (more important for me than right margin or embedded font), and what you means is not a solution, it is only a workaround, as ePub designers should know.
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Old 08-10-2011, 02:04 PM   #85
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Kindles are not as popular outside the US as you seem to think it is. ePub is the format outside the USA. And I am wondering how popular the Kindle is inside the USA.
How many forum outside USA do you know? At the Spanish forum where I usually am, Kindle is very, very popular. Among all my coworkers and acquaintances, Kindle is the most popular reader (aside of Papyre) by long. I have to be saying all the time: "Please, Kindle is not the only ereader". And publishers... what I can say is that, some day, the format that the publishers sell will be important at my country, now, not a lot. And I've gone to another Spanish forum about books and, again, Kindle was the main option.

So, I can tell you that, at least inn Spain, Kindle exists, Sony not a lot because of the price, and the other companies (B&N, Kobo) are simply a noun, if somebody knows them (I was looking at a Blackberry tablet at a big store, it has the Kobo app inside, I told to my friend about it and the clerk told me that I was the first person who had known the app).

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Old 08-10-2011, 02:41 PM   #86
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Cool mobi

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Once again, Mobi does exactly what I need. I don't want text around illustrations. I can zoom the illustration to the full size of the screen. I don't need block quotes. I have everything I need. If ePub is offering features I don't need, it is most certainly not better for me. You must be in sales, Jon...you don't take "no" for an answer.
....and it renders on a kindle!
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:02 PM   #87
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On the contrary. The companies who try to invent more restrictive DRM are losing sales. Games might be slightly different issue because they require a lot of interactivity. But since they started to sell DRM-free music the sales are doing fine. Books are even simpler than music and movies and it's impossible to make hard to break DRM system without seriously inconveniencing the reader.
That's not quite true. I'm glad you agree on games, but DRM doesn't stop there. Take one of the most popular software companies out there: Adobe. All of their software requires this complicated activation process, in which you must connect to the internet, run your serial by Adobe's licensing server, and then register your product. I'm not going to claim that this stops the software from being cracked, but it does in fact deter crackers. From the user's standpoint, it's little more than a one-time hassle, where they need to wait a couple seconds for the process to complete.

As for music, it's because one competitor began to offer DRM free, that other competitors were forced to follow suit. Plus, they've caught/sued so many people downloading music (and scared others into stopping), that much of the sales have been recovered.

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I am betting that 99% of cases when DRM is removed from Kindle books it is to read them on other devices (Sony, Kobo, Pocketbook etc.). Most people don't bother putting them on internet. They occasionally might give them to friends to read if they are interested.
Maybe that statistic is true. However, that 1% of cases get uploaded to the internet, and that's what matters; only one copy of a book needs to be uploaded to the internet. When I wrote my post yesterday, I ran a search, and I found plenty of 'retail copy' torrents.

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If Amazon would drop DRM altogether it would not change anything. Implementing a stronger (unbreakable for a general layperson) protection and making it impossible to read on other devices would decrease popularity of this platform.
I disagree; dropping DRM altogether would make it easy for the average person to easily share books with each other. Many people feel guilty about breaking DRM, or feel (rightly) worried about downloading books from online. However, if the process is as simple as emailing a file, people would be much more inclined to share. In turn, fewer people would buy their own books, and as such, Amazon would lose sales.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:04 PM   #88
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Once again, Mobi does exactly what I need. I don't want text around illustrations. I can zoom the illustration to the full size of the screen. I don't need block quotes. I have everything I need. If ePub is offering features I don't need, it is most certainly not better for me. You must be in sales, Jon...you don't take "no" for an answer.
I did not ask if Mobipocket was good enough for your needs. I asked What makes Mobipocket better then ePub? What can Mobipocket do for the eBook that ePub cannot? and you NEVER answered. Please answer the questions instead of trying to side-step.

I don't take side-stepping for an answer.
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Old 08-10-2011, 05:18 PM   #89
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i've tried to find some large repositories of epub and drawn a blank.

why are people so keen on this format when it seems so scarce online?
To get back to the original question, I want to point out that Google Books now has over 3 million free books in ePub format.

So it's hardly scarce.

Unless the OP is outside the US - I don't know how common different formats are outside of North America.
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Old 08-10-2011, 06:05 PM   #90
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dropping DRM altogether would make it easy for the average person to easily share books with each other. Many people feel guilty about breaking DRM, or feel (rightly) worried about downloading books from online. However, if the process is as simple as emailing a file, people would be much more inclined to share. In turn, fewer people would buy their own books, and as such, Amazon would lose sales.
I don't share the same opinion.

If I buy an ebook, I should be able to do with that ebook whatever I want, as long as I don't make additional copies of the same book. As a matter of fact, I should be able to sell my own copy if I want, like a regular paper book, why not? I paid for it already, we live in a free world.

With DRM protections, I am not able to read my books on a different device (forget about the format for a minute) So if 1 or 2 years I decide Sony readers are a better choice for me, if I don't break the DRM encryption I won't be able to read my existing books on that new device. I am stuck. It is not because is X or Y format, is because the encryption does not allow me to do that. Take for example B&N books. Yeah, they are ePub files. Can I read those on my Kindle? No. And it is not because the file format, it is because the DRM encryption does not allow me to use Calibre, convert, and move.

I don't need a cop or a higher entity telling me what I can do and what I cannot. Remember alcohol? It was banned and illegal. Of course is not the same, but did not stop people from drinking. DRM is not stopping people from breaking it. There are no statistics about that. And the reason is simple, because people don't want to reveal that, it is still illegal on some countries. But it is happening.

The whole DRM stuff is not to benefit end users, is promoting or helping companies to establish an eco-system where people will have to decide which one is better: B&N, Sony, Apple, Amazon. It should not be like that.

I don't ask permission for lending a book to a friend. I should not ask permission for lending an ebook either. And with today's technology, it is also easy to make photocopies of a paper book, so there is not much difference, only that one is digital.

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