Why So Many Newby Writers Without a Device

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by queentess

Ah, whoops, you're right. I let the tone of the rest of the thread creep in

No worries, I figured it was because you were so sensible that you let the initial OP slide out of your mind.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

WHY? Seriously. Why?

I'm a mobile reader. Literally. I come here every morning for the Freebie forum and the advertising forum. I do not care one tiny little bit if Author Joe Bob participated in the NOOK forum to your satisfaction before posting his book in the promotions forum. You feel differently? Great! Stay out of the forum clearly marked AUTHOR SELF-PROMOTIONS and play in the NOOK forum. Everybody is happy, no silly hoops to jump through.

Speaking of hoops: have you never been on a board with posting limits before? There is an ungodly amount of "yeah, no, I agree with Queentess there!" spam posts so that people can get their post count up so that they can actually POST.

I mean it as a sort of compromise to the people who are bothered by it. If it stays in the self promotion part, I really don't have a problem. That's what it is there for. It does bother me a little that they're not doing much to aid the community, but my only real beef comes in when they spill out into other areas with thinly veiled ad posts. I guess part of me is just seeing both sides of the arguement.

You'll get that hoops or no hoops. I mean, for example, look at Ditchleyportrait. Been a member a little over a month, and 447 posts to his name. How many of his posts are just an emoticon, or "lolz". Now, to be fair he in particular does have many posts as well where he does participate, and I'm not trying to single him out as a bad person, he's just a random example. People often will add what could be construed as fluff comments to a thread, because they merely feel the need to express themselves. Everyone gets that way sometimes.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

I mean it as a sort of compromise to the people who are bothered by it.

Ana: "I think authors should be allowed to post in the self-promotion forum."
OP: "I think they need to demonstrably own a device and participate meaningfully."

Hellmark: "Let's have a post-count / meaningful-participation minimum!"

I'm at a loss as to how your proposal is a "compromise" so much as "agreeing with the OP entirely".

Originally Posted by Hellmark

It does bother me a little that they're not doing much to aid the community,

Again, this is subjective. The author self-promotions do more for ME than the Kindle forum. By my measure of what "aids the community", we should get rid of the Kindle forum. It hasn't helped ME at all.

Isn't it good, therefore, that we're not defining what is helpful to the community based on the desires of a few posters?

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

I say just make the rule where they have to be a member of the community for a while before they can advertise their book. I mean, we have a rule that prevents people from having a signature before being a member 10 days and 10 posts. Let them prove their worth, and if they've done that allow them more freedom in their posts.

If there had been some sort of restriction like that when I joined, I wouldn't have bothered. What's the point in having a community if I'm forbidden to post in certain forums? If I don't feel welcome in a place, I don't bother joining.

And while many authors are the hit-and-run type, the 'annoying' posts are confined to a particular area that's easy to avoid. (I remember when it wasn't. Boy howdy.) And I don't want to scare away authors who could be helpful.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Ana: "I think authors should be allowed to post in the self-promotion forum."
OP: "I think they need to demonstrably own a device and participate meaningfully."

Hellmark: "Let's have a post-count / meaningful-participation minimum!"

I'm at a loss as to how your proposal is a "compromise" so much as "agreeing with the OP entirely".

The OP, to me at least, seemed to think if they didn't have a device, they weren't going to participate. You pointed out that not everyone can afford a device, but still likes ebooks. If there was some way of showing they liked ebooks and want to be part of the community but didn't own a reader, I thought of that as a middleground. The people who think them suspicious are satisfied, and the people can still be active.

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Again, this is subjective. The author self-promotions do more for ME than the Kindle forum. By my measure of what "aids the community", we should get rid of the Kindle forum. It hasn't helped ME at all.

Isn't it good, therefore, that we're not defining what is helpful to the community based on the desires of a few posters?

Yeah, it is all subjective. For the most part, I think things are fine as is. Start changing it based on a few whims, and things crumble.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by queentess

If there had been some sort of restriction like that when I joined, I wouldn't have bothered. What's the point in having a community if I'm forbidden to post in certain forums? If I don't feel welcome in a place, I don't bother joining.

And while many authors are the hit-and-run type, the 'annoying' posts are confined to a particular area that's easy to avoid. (I remember when it wasn't. Boy howdy.) And I don't want to scare away authors who could be helpful.

Yeah, post restrictions are the death knell of a forum because they scream "this is not an inclusive place". You're already aware that you're walking into a mine field of expectations and judgments and you're screwed no matter what you do. Few people want to sign up for that when there's a shiny Internet just outside the door.

I'm pretty sure MY first post was I HAZ A NOOK. CAN I ROUTE IT NAO?

[neilmarr]

Hya Anamardoll. This is nowt to fall out over, so let's just get something straight: My OP was politely phrased (some said overly so), made no accusations of abuse, I simply asked to question: "Why do so many newcoming authors to MR not appear to actually own an ebook-reading device?"

Idle curiosity? Perhaps, But Harry T explained bluntly in the very next post feelings I didn't want to express myself for fear of offending those who don't own or list an ebook-reading device for any reason whatsoever.

At least the question has sparked some lively and rewarding debate from those who -- like you -- actually contribute what they can to the group. Some responses have led me, for one, to re-think my original position on the matter ... at least to some extent. That's what community discussion is all about, eh?

Very best and happy batteries. Neil

[anamardoll]

Neil, I don't see the reason to continue this further, but no, your OP was not polite. (Indeed, I've already said it was aggressive and I think Queentess has seconded the point. I won't claim to speak for her though. )

You may have said everything in a very nice tone, but that doesn't make the CONTENTS polite. You made a lot of assumptions about posters based purely on whether they had a certain field in their profile filled out, and well, I was raised to consider judging others based on their online profile to be a pretty rude act. (Momma was very specific about internet protocol. )

Giving me a I DIDN'T DO NOFFIN RONG flounce isn't going to somehow change the fact that your OP made a lot of rude assumptions, you've been called on it, and now you're trying to damage control. I'd prefer you just said, "Yeah, maybe that was a little ranty of me, I'm sorry, coffee time" like everyone else on the internet.

[DiapDealer]

I didn't see anything rude about the OP... in its words or in its content (or even between its words). I do think the thread turned a little aggressive later, but oh well. Perceptions are funny things.

[amward]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I didn't see anything rude about the OP... in its words or in its content (or even between its words). I do think the thread turned a little aggressive later, but oh well. Perceptions are funny things.

Ditto

[anamardoll]

I based my opinion on the use of the words "insulting", "exploiting", and "lovingly" (as in, their work isn't crafted as such). In my particular neck of the words, you pretty much can't use those words politely any more than you can politely call someone a jackass.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by neilmarr

Hya Anamardoll. This is nowt to fall out over, so let's just get something straight: My OP was politely phrased (some said overly so), made no accusations of abuse, I simply asked to question: "Why do so many newcoming authors to MR not appear to actually own an ebook-reading device?"

And why is it they also don't live anyplace? Many people don't have anything filled in for the location as well. Same difference. So who is going to start the Why don't authors have a place to live? thread.

I know you meant well, but it's since drifted off big time and we have people suggesting how to make things less friendly for authors.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

I based my opinion on the use of the words "insulting", "exploiting", and "lovingly" (as in, their work isn't crafted as such). In my particular neck of the words, you pretty much can't use those words politely any more than you can politely call someone a jackass.

Actually, you can use jackass politely. But you can't do it on a forum as it will be taken as insulting.

[shibamistress]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I didn't see anything rude about the OP... in its words or in its content (or even between its words). I do think the thread turned a little aggressive later, but oh well. Perceptions are funny things.

I didn't find it rude either, and actually found most of the following discussion interesting, and thoughtful, esp. in the way it went on to discuss participation and lack thereof in forums.

And given that I'm relatively new here, I also didn't find it offputting to newbies, or at least not to me.

I suppose if I was only here to advertise my books, then I might have been a bit put out by it, but I'm not here for that anyway.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

And why is it they also don't live anyplace? Many people don't have anything filled in for the location as well. Same difference. So who is going to start the Why don't authors have a place to live? thread.

I know you meant well, but it's since drifted off big time and we have people suggesting how to make things less friendly for authors.

Oh, great, let's pick on the homeless authors now.

(Kidding. )