Kobo / Apple purchasing changes

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Ah well; it's just my personal opinion, which may of course be completely wrong.

Depends on the individual. Most of my friends are not tech oriented and turn to the few of us who are whenever they need help.

It's a rare occasion for me when I have to open a browser on my iPod touch to search out a website.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

It's a rare occasion for me when I have to open a browser on my iPod touch to search out a website.

Whereas the browser on my iPhone is far and away my most-used app. It's what I'm using now to write this.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Whereas the browser on my iPhone is far and away my most-used app. It's what I'm using now to write this.

That's the beauty of these devices; they're so easy to tailor to fit our own specific needs.

[TedJ]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

...They don't mess with browsers.

Smart move, I've heard he can be dangerous.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by HappyMartin

I think this is all pretty silly. Now it takes 4 extra key strokes to purchase a book and that is a disaster? Well I guess it all depends on perspective. I am still excited that I no longer need to get into my car, drive to a bookstore, walk around the place, stand in line to pay, remove my card from my wallet, hand it to a sales person............

Get the idea?

It's the principle. Apple is going out of their way to make their devices less convenient and useful to their customers. The fact that it is still more convenient than going to a store is irrelevant. Yes, there are more important things in the world than needing more clicks to buy an ebook. I can't stand tech companies who don't respect technology.

Crippling your customer's device to spite the competition is disgraceful, and it's anti-progress and anti-technology.

But it is a free world and Apple are certainly within their rights to be lame. It's just a shame that their brilliant marketing/snake oil salesmanship does such a good job of conning people into buying their mostly substandard products.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by kjk

Apple does care for their users, and their products get high marks for usability. They provide value for their price.

Apple has a track record of doing the wrong thing by their customers. Telling iPhone 4 users they were holding the phone wrongly because Apple chose to use a crap antenna so that they could make their phone look nicer. Arbitrarily banning apps from their app store. Etc.

Yes, Apple's users do often rate their products well. But Apple's users are mostly a mix of diehard fanboys and users with little knowledge of alternatives (i.e. they haven't tried the often better competition - e.g. when people see my phone and MP3 player compared to an iPhone/iPod Touch they are often amazed at how much more intuitive and well designed the non-Apple is when they previously assumed that Apple's devices are great because Apple says so).

You're seriously going to claim that Apple products are good value for their price? Really? This is demonstrably untrue. Check the prices of Apple computers (built with the SAME COMPONENTS as other computers) compared to Asus, Samsung, HP, etc. A top-end Windows computer is usually several hundred dollars less than the equivalent Mac. iPods are more expensive than most (if not all) comparable MP3 players. iPhones and iPads are not badly priced, but that is due to a different model (i.e. phone carriers make money from contracts, and Apple is positioning itself as a middle-man by taking a cut of all apps and media on the iPad, so they are able to make less margin on those).

How any intelligent person can judge someone else's intelligence based on what brand they purchase is beyond me. Except here on MobileRead of course. Here it is par for the course, and I find it tiresome.

You're right. Ignorance is not the same as intelligence. My bad.

Childish rants against a company's policy are one thing. Childish insults of users of those company's products here should stop.

There's nothing childish about being passionate about technology and being critical of companies that undermine the excellent potential of technology by crippling their products and promoting style over substance. These are two things that Apple is demonstrably guilty of. You may not have a problem with those things, but there are few things that bother me more than the willful disdain for consumers and technology as an ideal that companies like Apple perpetrate.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Apple has a track record of doing the wrong thing by their customers. Telling iPhone 4 users they were holding the phone wrongly because Apple chose to use a crap antenna so that they could make their phone look nicer. Arbitrarily banning apps from their app store. Etc.

Yes, Apple's users do often rate their products well. But Apple's users are mostly a mix of diehard fanboys and users with little knowledge of alternatives (i.e. they haven't tried the often better competition - e.g. when people see my phone and MP3 player compared to an iPhone/iPod Touch they are often amazed at how much more intuitive and well designed the non-Apple is when they previously assumed that Apple's devices are great because Apple says so).

You're seriously going to claim that Apple products are good value for their price? Really? This is demonstrably untrue. Check the prices of Apple computers (built with the SAME COMPONENTS as other computers) compared to Asus, Samsung, HP, etc. A top-end Windows computer is usually several hundred dollars less than the equivalent Mac. iPods are more expensive than most (if not all) comparable MP3 players. iPhones and iPads are not badly priced, but that is due to a different model (i.e. phone carriers make money from contracts, and Apple is positioning itself as a middle-man by taking a cut of all apps and media on the iPad, so they are able to make less margin on those).



You're right. Ignorance is not the same as intelligence. My bad.



There's nothing childish about being passionate about technology and being critical of companies that undermine the excellent potential of technology by crippling their products and promoting style over substance. These are two things that Apple is demonstrably guilty of. You may not have a problem with those things, but there are few things that bother me more than the willful disdain for consumers and technology as an ideal that companies like Apple perpetrate.

You are within your right to not like Apple but to look down upon others because they don't share your views is just as trifling.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Open-ness get abused by marketers but the fact is it's a value-add trait and one on which Apple built their entire iPhone business, by taking control of app sales and installation away from the telecoms welcoming aps from all comers.

I don't think openness should be considered a value add. It should be considered the default. Why on Earth should a consumer tech company decide what software you should be 'allowed' to run on your hardware? That is absurd.

Products don't have to be open to all comers to be successful as many closed systems can be and are successful.
The fact that some people may have a greater tolerance for its absence does not negate the underlying reality that more open is better than less for customers.

What is needed is a balanced solution. Too open = potential issues for users (this is a reason Apple has stated, though it's clearly not as important to Steve Jobs as removing political apps and mild nudity that offends his ultra-conservative opinions), such as malware, garbage apps, etc. Too closed and you have what amounts to censorship.

In ebook terms; I "suspect" that we would have a hard time finding somebody willingly inflicting a upon themselves a truly closed ebook reader like, say, the Sony Librie 1.0.
But maybe that's just me...

I disagree...well, actually I don't think I do. Most consumers don't have a clue that their devices have moderated marketplaces. I've seen the look on people's faces when they hear that an app isn't available on their phone because it was banned. I've had people ask why a certain webpage won't work on their iPhone only to see that it needs Flash, which Apple arbitrarily ban from iOS devices because Steve Jobs has a vendetta against Adobe for putting more effort into Photoshop on Windows than on Mac (allegedly).

But the bigger problem for ebooks is that publishers have different rights and use different bookstores (i.e. the bookstores are not inter-compatible).

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

You are within your right to not like Apple but to look down upon others because they don't share your views is just as trifling.

Calling someone ignorant because they don't know much about technology is not looking down. It's an honest, factual statement. I'm aware that the term 'ignorant' tends to have offensive overtones, but I don't mean it in that way.

Apple is doing some terrible things, and I don't like to see people supporting them. I have every right (and duty) to call Apple users out on their enabling of Steve Jobs's vendetta against consumers. I don't deny their right to use those products, but if I see a chance to educate people a bit about them I will take it.

Apple did some great things in the past (they gave us $1 digital music, their computers used to be among the best, the original iPhone did a lot to get Google and Microsoft to create better platforms), but today they represent the worst of the tech world.

I couldn't care less if someone shares my views or not, but I do care when someone has a view that I feel is not informed. I am really saddened by how much marketing has come to replace facts and objectivity in peoples' decision making these days. And Apple is one of the major contributors and benefactors of that.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Calling someone ignorant because they don't know much about technology is not looking down. It's an honest, factual statement. I'm aware that the term 'ignorant' tends to have offensive overtones, but I don't mean it in that way.

Apple is doing some terrible things, and I don't like to see people supporting them. I have every right (and duty) to call Apple users out on their enabling of Steve Jobs's vendetta against consumers. I don't deny their right to use those products, but if I see a chance to educate people a bit about them I will take it.

Apple did some great things in the past (they gave us $1 digital music, their computers used to be among the best, the original iPhone did a lot to get Google and Microsoft to create better platforms), but today they represent the worst of the tech world.

I couldn't care less if someone shares my views or not, but I do care when someone has a view that I feel is not informed. I am really saddened by how much marketing has come to replace facts and objectivity in peoples' decision making these days. And Apple is one of the major contributors and benefactors of that.

Yet again, this is your opinion. You are welcome to it. I will use whatever product by whatever vendor that works for me as I see fit. You are welcome to do the same. What you are not welcome to do is to judge someone else based on your opinion.

[elcreative]

djgreedo, for someone who likes to rant about fanbois slavish devotion to Apple's products, you do a remarkable good job of irritating people with your personal agenda/propaganda especially when defined by you as your personal crusade and principled... and this from the Kindle user who isn't tied to a company that implements DRM on their products with a standard file format that is generally recognised as being behind the times...

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Depends on the individual. Most of my friends are not tech oriented and turn to the few of us who are whenever they need help.

It's a rare occasion for me when I have to open a browser on my iPod touch to search out a website.

Wow, I find it really hard to believe that smartphone/ipod touch users would not either not use their web browser nor know how to use their web browser. I came into the world of the Internet through computers: but I guess if your first computing device is a smartphone or ipod touch, then you connect to the Internet through apps and bypass the whole web browser approach.
I pooh poohed the idea that removing the store links would be much of a problem for the average ebook consumer, and would be a boost for iBooks, but maybe I'm wrong about this.
Still, I think that ebook consumers will catch up quick- because the booksellers will WANT them to catch on quick. Amazon has already emailed me this:

We'd like to update you on a change to the Kindle application that affects the way that you access the Kindle Store. In order to comply with recent policy changes by Apple, we've removed the "Kindle Store" link from within the app that opened Safari and took you to the Kindle Store.

You can still shop on iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch--just open the Safari web browser and go to Amazon.com. (For quick access, we recommend creating a bookmark in your web browser.) Your Kindle books will be delivered to your Kindle application and automatically downloaded when you open the app. Thanks for being a Kindle customer.

Also, too, Amazon is already listed in Safari's Bookmarks folder, so the transition really couldn't be much easier.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Yes, Apple's users do often rate their products well. But Apple's users are mostly a mix of diehard fanboys and users with little knowledge of alternatives (i.e. they haven't tried the often better competition - e.g. when people see my phone and MP3 player compared to an iPhone/iPod Touch they are often amazed at how much more intuitive and well designed the non-Apple is when they previously assumed that Apple's devices are great because Apple says so).

Every product's users are a mix of diehard fanboys and users with little knowledge of alternatives. Go to any forum of any product, and you will realize this.

You are just ignoring the middle ground of users, who buy products based on knowledge of alternatives, research, and observation/word of mouth from friends, and places online like MobileRead.

Apple users are no different than Amazon Kindle users, Microsoft Xbox360 users, or Toyota Prius drivers. There are crazy fanboys, there are people who buy just on brand, and there are informed users.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by elcreative

djgreedo, for someone who likes to rant about fanbois slavish devotion to Apple's products, you do a remarkable good job of irritating people with your personal agenda/propaganda especially when defined by you as your personal crusade and principled... and this from the Kindle user who isn't tied to a company that implements DRM on their products with a standard file format that is generally recognised as being behind the times...

Apple fanboys gotta fan: Apple haters gotta hate.
Apple is an enormously successful and diverse company that is at once a computer manufacturer, a computer and consumer electronics retailer, and a multimedia merchandiser. Their moves are not going to please everyone all the time.

I remember back in 1998 when Apple rolled out its Imac line of computers without internal floppy disk drives. At that time I thought Apple was nuts!
I was not the only one: there was a tidal wave of disapproval at the time. Apple haters had a field day crowing about the "arrogance" of Apple , the disregard Apple had for its consumers, and the mindless devotion of Apple customers who licked the boots that kicked them. Two years later, Apple's decision was seen as prescient.

Did Apple make a mistake here? Maybe: since we don't know Apple's long-term business objectives, we can't be sure as yet.

The Apple haters have been wrong an awful lot over the past ten years: I guess I have more faith in Apple than in the Apple haters.

[fbrII]

My take is simple - if you don't like their policies don't buy their products. They understand revenue, market share and profit losses, not much else.

I don't like this decision, I won't buy from them in the future.

On the other hand I don't expect everybody else to feel the same way. I also know that many of those people who disagree with me are highly principled and intelligent people. The fact that we disagree on the consequences of this policy does not divide us up into two camps one intelligent and one stupid.

Leave users out of it, they committed no sin in buying a product and if they want to be more pragmatic about a policy change, then you or I - that's their business, they are affected equally by the policy change.

I'm sure they have or will elect to take what they feel is a principled stance on something and you or I will judge them using the same pragmatic reasoning they take today with us, as in; "It's not my fight, I don't see it as being the serious problem you proclaim it to be".

Also, heaping scorn and ridicule, is unproductive, it normally does nothing but entrench people in their current positions, whether right or wrong. I have done it in anger, and looking back, it only served to undermine the argument I was trying to make.

So, my take is, if you feel angry, punish the company, in the most effective, legal and ethical, means available to you. But, by all means avoid making collective judgements about their users/supporters intelligence, ethics, morals etc.

You will be wrong every time.

Ok, I think its time for me to get off my horse