Kobo / Apple purchasing changes

[JoeD]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I respect your position, but consider the case of a total non-techie that buys an iPad:

They take the iPad home and start looking for apps to install.
"Hey! ebook readers! Lets try them out!"
"Kobo reader."
One install later.
"Okay. How's this thing work? I don't see any books? It says 'Sign in', but there's no way to create an account. Doesn't say where to get an account either. Or what the account offers."
"Useless."
"Let me try Kindle, I hear a lot of people have Kindles..."
"Same thing... Stupidd apps are only good if you *already* have an account..."

Agreed. Check the reviews for the latest kindle version without the store button. Unless the sarcasm isn't coming across in the reviews, some people really cannot understand how to get books now. They didn't realise clicking the button only took them to a safari page that they can still access themselves if they open safari.

To paraphrase heavily "Why have you removed the store button, I can't get books anymore, I'm going to use iBooks instead, you suck Amazon".

It's even worse by apple not allowing companies the option to mention that you need to have an account on site XYZ before you can buy books/use the app.

Sometimes we forget that for many people knowing you need to open a web browser to get books into an app is an illogical step. Granted it's a significantly less technical hurdle than people needing to learn how to copy books over manually via usb/wifi (and heaven forbid having to strip drm first) but an extra hurdle nonetheless.

[stonetools]

I'm beginning to really hate talk of "openness" It seems to be a kind of techie synonym for "goodness" and doesn't really mean anything.
Let's review. Originally, the Ios platform was supposed to be a closed platform with the native apps all coming for Apple. Third party developers were to be limited to creating " sweet web apps". Based on feedback from the tech community, Apple decided to open the platform native apps third party developers and to create the App Store. That represented a 180 degree transformation of the original vision for Ios devices. I bet that fTorres and others are totally OK with that "after the fact" change.

now let's look at fTorres scenario:

respect your position, but consider the case of a total non-techie that buys an iPad:

They take the iPad home and start looking for apps to install.
"Hey! ebook readers! Lets try them out!"
"Kobo reader."
One install later.
"Okay. How's this thing work? I don't see any books? It says 'Sign in', but there's no way to create an account. Doesn't say where to get an account either. Or what the account offers."
"Useless."
"Let me try Kindle, I hear a lot of people have Kindles..."
"Same thing... Stupidd apps are only good if you *already* have an account..."

I begin by pointing out that Netflix-maybe the most popular third party Ios app- has NEVER had a way to sign up for its service in app. Nevertheless, Netflix has thrived on the Ipad. Apparently those "non-techies" have figured out the whole "sign-up on the Web, access on your Idevice" process.
Its not as though the major booksellers CAN'T email their customers or put notices on their websites-which is what they have already done.

In the end , this is a minor inconvenience for customers that they will adjust to after some grumbling.

MP has nailed Apple's thinking on this in the other thread, and I would refer all readers to that.

[stonetools]

It's not just a matter of Apple becoming rich off the backs of other bookstores. Under the Agency pricing model (which all six big publishers use) a bookstore gets 30% of each sale. Apple knows this since they were the ones who first brokered the Agency agreements with various publishers. When Apple asks these bookstores to hand over 30% of a sale, they're really saying that they expect these bookstores to make *nothing* on those sales.

As for non-Agency books ... while I have no facts to back this up, I would guess that many of those books are the lower priced ones on the various ebook stores. I doubt the bookstores are making 30% from each book sold, so they'd lose money on every single book sold. The only option open to ebook stores, then, under a proposed model where they'd see at best 0% from each sale, at worst a loss on each sale, would be to remove the in-app link to the store. I'm sure Apple knew this, and doubt very much that they actually expected anyone to agree to their prososed deal.
__________________

You should understand that this scenario has been kind of "baked in the cake" through behind the scenes negotiations, and that there is some kabuki theater going on. After Apple made its changes, it was understood that the booksellers were going to remove their store links and that they were going to do so only after it was clear that they were "pushed" by Apple.
When the booksellers' customers ( who haven't been following this) see the missing store links and get enraged by this, the booksellers can direct the customer's wrath to Apple through the quick deployment of emails and other notices.
Apple is willing to endure this wrath because:

A. They have business objectives other than ebooks in mind.

B. They understand that the customer's wrath will blow over once they realize the Ios platform remains the best and most versatile platform in terms of buying and reading ebooks.

[djgreedo]

The problem here is that Apple simply doesn't care about users and the usability of their products. They have always favoured form over function and high profits over value. That's their right, of course, but as a huge fan of technology I find their ways repugnant.

Apple essentially blackmailed the ebook sellers: either they surrender essentially all of their profits from ebooks (note: Apple didn't want a small cut, they wanted 30%, which for at least 2 stores that I know of accounts for their entire profit on every sale) or their customers get a second-rate experience on Apple's devices.

How any intelligent adult can bring themselves to purchase Apple products is beyond me. They don't make a single product that is the best in its market (perhaps the iPad when combined with the iTunes store since no Android tablet yet has a comparable media ecosystem - not until the Amazon tablet comes out), and Apple repeatedly demonstrates out-and-out disdain for their customers. It's a shame the man in charge is such a control freak who likes to force his values on others. Apple clearly has some talented people working for them, but they are wasted on such lacklustre products.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

How any intelligent adult can bring themselves to purchase Apple products is beyond me.

I bought the iPod touch because there's no comparable Android touch. Samsung keeps promising the Galaxy S WiFi, but it's vaporware at the moment.

[kjk]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

The problem here is that Apple simply doesn't care about users and the usability of their products. They have always favoured form over function and high profits over value. That's their right, of course, but as a huge fan of technology I find their ways repugnant.

Apple essentially blackmailed the ebook sellers: either they surrender essentially all of their profits from ebooks (note: Apple didn't want a small cut, they wanted 30%, which for at least 2 stores that I know of accounts for their entire profit on every sale) or their customers get a second-rate experience on Apple's devices.

How any intelligent adult can bring themselves to purchase Apple products is beyond me. They don't make a single product that is the best in its market (perhaps the iPad when combined with the iTunes store since no Android tablet yet has a comparable media ecosystem - not until the Amazon tablet comes out), and Apple repeatedly demonstrates out-and-out disdain for their customers. It's a shame the man in charge is such a control freak who likes to force his values on others. Apple clearly has some talented people working for them, but they are wasted on such lacklustre products.

Apple does care for their users, and their products get high marks for usability. They provide value for their price.

How any intelligent person can judge someone else's intelligence based on what brand they purchase is beyond me. Except here on MobileRead of course. Here it is par for the course, and I find it tiresome.

Childish rants against a company's policy are one thing. Childish insults of users of those company's products here should stop.

[murraypaul]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

They don't make a single product that is the best in its market (perhaps the iPad when combined with the iTunes store since no Android tablet yet has a comparable media ecosystem - not until the Amazon tablet comes out)

What did the Romans ever do for us?

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by murraypaul

What did the Romans ever do for us?

Exactly... never mind, none of this will matter shortly as Apple is implementing the predicted Mayan end of the world scenario to annoy everyone with Microsoft drawing down the giant asteroid to finish the process off whilst Google instigate Fimbulwinter just to be sure...

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by elcreative

Exactly... never mind, none of this will matter shortly as Apple is implementing the predicted Mayan end of the world scenario to annoy everyone with Microsoft drawing down the giant asteroid to finish the process off whilst Google instigate Fimbulwinter just to be sure...

You dare laugh?!

Winter is Coming

[fjtorres]

Open-ness get abused by marketers but the fact is it's a value-add trait and one on which Apple built their entire iPhone business, by taking control of app sales and installation away from the telecoms welcoming aps from all comers.
Products don't have to be open to all comers to be successful as many closed systems can be and are successful.
The fact that some people may have a greater tolerance for its absence does not negate the underlying reality that more open is better than less for customers.

In ebook terms; I "suspect" that we would have a hard time finding somebody willingly inflicting a upon themselves a truly closed ebook reader like, say, the Sony Librie 1.0.
But maybe that's just me...

[elcreative]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

You dare laugh?!

Winter is Coming

But I'm on the winning side...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by stonetools

In the end , this is a minor inconvenience for customers that they will adjust to after some grumbling.

Speak for yourself. I just did a trial run for a purchase from the home page of the Kindle app on my iPod touch and it took me 4 extra keystrokes to get to the bookmarked Kindle store.

That's a big PITA and it's a good thing I don't read on my touch or I'd be really ticked off by this change.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

The problem here is that Apple simply doesn't care about users and the usability of their products. They have always favoured form over function and high profits over value. That's their right, of course, but as a huge fan of technology I find their ways repugnant.

Apple essentially blackmailed the ebook sellers: either they surrender essentially all of their profits from ebooks (note: Apple didn't want a small cut, they wanted 30%, which for at least 2 stores that I know of accounts for their entire profit on every sale) or their customers get a second-rate experience on Apple's devices.

How any intelligent adult can bring themselves to purchase Apple products is beyond me. They don't make a single product that is the best in its market (perhaps the iPad when combined with the iTunes store since no Android tablet yet has a comparable media ecosystem - not until the Amazon tablet comes out), and Apple repeatedly demonstrates out-and-out disdain for their customers. It's a shame the man in charge is such a control freak who likes to force his values on others. Apple clearly has some talented people working for them, but they are wasted on such lacklustre products.

You're absolutely right. Clearly those of us who buy products from such a terrible company have neither intelligence nor taste.

I'm sure I speak for all Apple owners in thanking you for pointing out the error of our ways to us.

[fbrII]

Childish rants against a company's policy are one thing. Childish insults of users of those company's products here should stop.

I am in agreement with your second sentence. As for the first sentence "childish rants" is simply your judgement of other peoples opinion and doesn't that put you in the exact same league as the people you criticize.

You have chosen to post multiple times on this thread so what are the great and mighty principles that you stand for? That people don't have a right to criticize a company implementing a policy they don't believe in?

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Speak for yourself. I just did a trial run for a purchase from the home page of the Kindle app on my iPod touch and it took me 4 extra keystrokes to get to the bookmarked Kindle store.

That's a big PITA and it's a good thing I don't read on my touch or I'd be really ticked off by this change.

You're buying from the wrong bookstore.

Steve Jobs,

Sent from my Ipod touch 5

--------------------

Seriously, though, 4 extra keystrokes is a PITA? Dude, folks are dying in Afghanistan....