News from Bookeen about firmware upgrade

[HarryT]

I just asked Tommy that myself in a different thread . It seems to be, but needs more experimentation to check.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It's certainly licenced from Mobi - look at the copyright message on the "About" box.

But since everybody refer to build 538 (which is the build for the Boo Reader) I had assumed that this was the reader. So to discuss properties of the reader we should say version 6.0 (build 60).

Does anybody have a Cybook with old firmware and can tell us what version and build is given for the MobiPocket Reader?

[HarryT]

It was the same - I checked before upgrading. I'd guess it just means that the Gen3's Mobi reader is based on version 6.0 of Mobi's code.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

It was the same - I checked before upgrading. I'd guess it just means that the Gen3's Mobi reader is based on version 6.0 of Mobi's code.

But then you cannot know that the page handling code is from MobiPocket.

[cmbs]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No, they don't. They show you an estimate of the total number of pages in the book, NOT the current page number (unless I've missed it somewhere?).

I'd guess it's to give you a quick way of going roughly to a certain point in the book. Eg, if you want to go to a point 80% of the way through a 1000 page book, you'd say "goto page 800". How else would you make large jumps through a long book which perhaps lacked a table of contents?

No, it's obvious from the fact that a "jump" destination always ends up at the top of a page that page numbers are NOT being calculated; they are just estimates based on (presumably) the length of the current page and the total file size.

You have to lay the blame for this one at MobiPocket rather than Bookeen, I think. All versions of the Mobi reader have equally "fake" page numbers, and Bookeen license the Mobi reader code from Bookeen. Some versions of the Mobi reader display page numbers; others don't.

They show the number of pages in the book and allow you to go to a specific page. It certainly does not say "estimated". It says go to page _ of [number of pages]. Nothing about this being anything but accurate is indicated. If you choose to go to page 50, then you assume you're on page 50. It's not at all obvious that it's "estimated." It seems pretty crystal clear to me that they're saying this is how many pages are in the book, and you can go to a specific page.

Mobipocket didn't charge me $350 for a product with multiple problems and then refuse to answer my emails. Furthermore, they absolutely have modified the code, as their version doesn't work nearly as well as the free version I have on my pc.

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by tompe

But since everybody refer to build 538 (which is the build for the Boo Reader) I had assumed that this was the reader. So to discuss properties of the reader we should say version 6.0 (build 60).

Does anybody have a Cybook with old firmware and can tell us what version and build is given for the MobiPocket Reader?

Isn't relevant. Boo Reader is NOT Mobipocket Reader. Boo Reader is an internal development from Bookeen. Thus, the build 476 and build 538 are indicators of Bookeen's development process. However, way back at Boo Reader 0.91, they were working to support Mobipocket 6.0x version features, if I understand correctly. You have to understand that we didn't get to see the 'About...' until Version 1.0.

Derek

[HarryT]

No; that is simply a logical deduction based on the fact that all versions of the Mobi reader appear to exhibit the same incorrect handling of page numbers - eg the iLiad (which does display a page number) routinely lets you read beyond the displayed "end page number" of a book, so you might be reading page 510 of a 500 page book.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

No; that is simply a logical deduction based on the fact that all versions of the Mobi reader appear to exhibit the same incorrect handling of page numbers - eg the iLiad (which does display a page number) routinely lets you read beyond the displayed "end page number" of a book, so you might be reading page 510 of a 500 page book.

Yes, but a reasonable explanation is that is beacuse they only have implemented what is easy to implement. And if the write there own reader and only use support functions from MobiPocket tey can implement whatever they want so you cannot blame or explain the implementation by saying that they have only licensed the code which was what you did above.
They have their reader code and they could have implemented something that worked better. Do not blame MobiPocket.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by cmbs

They show the number of pages in the book and allow you to go to a specific page. It certainly does not say "estimated". It says go to page _ of [number of pages]. Nothing about this being anything but accurate is indicated. If you choose to go to page 50, then you assume you're on page 50. It's not at all obvious that it's "estimated." It seems pretty crystal clear to me that they're saying this is how many pages are in the book, and you can go to a specific page.

Mobipocket didn't charge me $350 for a product with multiple problems and then refuse to answer my emails. Furthermore, they absolutely have modified the code, as their version doesn't work nearly as well as the free version I have on my pc.

Sorry, but both the Gen3 and the PC version have exactly the same page numbering bugs.

Try this:

Create a book from an HTML file and go to page "100" in it. Make a note of where that page starts. Now add a hyperlink to a point near the bottom of page "100".

Now, if you jump to that hyperlink the point which was previously near the bottom of the page will be right at the top, but the PC version of the Mobi reader will still tell you that you're looking at page 100. Which is the "real" page 100 - the one that you get to by paging through the book, or the one that you get to by jumping to that hyperlink? Different pages are being displayed, so they can't both be the same page, and yet Mobi reader will tell you that both are "page 100".

All versions of the Mobi reader do this. No Mobi device - free or otherwise - does real pagination. Page numbers are an estimates, whether they tell you this or not. This is obvious if you play around with hyperlinks in books.

That's the way that the Mobi readers have always worked. Page numbers are nothing more than estimates based on file position.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Yes, but a reasonable explanation is that is beacuse they only have implemented what is easy to implement. And if the write there own reader and only use support functions from MobiPocket tey can implement whatever they want so you cannot blame or explain the implementation by saying that they have only licensed the code which was what you did above.
They have their reader code and they could have implemented something that worked better. Do not blame MobiPocket.

I merely note that the Mobi reader shows page numbering bugs on all platforms. It seems logical, therefore, to acribe this behaviour to the internal functionality of Mobi's code. I could be wrong. You could be wrong. We all could be wrong. Who knows? It's just a guess.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Now, if you jump to that hyperlink the point which was previously near the bottom of the page will be right at the top, but the PC version of the Mobi reader will still tell you that you're looking at page 100. Which is the "real" page 100 - the one that you get to by paging through the book, or the one that you get to by jumping to that hyperlink? Different pages are being displayed, so they can't both be the same page, and yet Mobi reader will tell you that both are "page 100".

Plus minue one page is natural if you think about the file format and how it works. It is an error of 6 pages when jumping 20 pages forward that I would be surprised if all readers had.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by tompe

Plus minue one page is natural if you think about the file format and how it works. It is an error of 6 pages when jumping 20 pages forward that I would be surprised if all readers had.

Try it. See if the Windows Mobi reader has the same bug. My guess would be that it does. I'd be interested to know!

[delphidb96]

Originally Posted by cmbs

They show the number of pages in the book and allow you to go to a specific page. It certainly does not say "estimated". It says go to page _ of [number of pages]. Nothing about this being anything but accurate is indicated. If you choose to go to page 50, then you assume you're on page 50. It's not at all obvious that it's "estimated." It seems pretty crystal clear to me that they're saying this is how many pages are in the book, and you can go to a specific page.

Mobipocket didn't charge me $350 for a product with multiple problems and then refuse to answer my emails. Furthermore, they absolutely have modified the code, as their version doesn't work nearly as well as the free version I have on my pc.

Mobipocket also didn't develop the reader app installed on the Cybook. That app was developed, under license from Mobipocket if I understand correctly, by Bookeen. And if you think you have a flawed product, just remember that *MY* first Cybook Gen3 was an 'engineering sample' and didn't even come with Version 1.0 build 1 of the reader app. I got Version 0.91!!!

Yes, Boo Reader is designed to implement the feature-set that Mobipocket Reader offers. But it IS a work-in-progress! Clearly it supports just a subset of MobiReader features. However, the subset offered in V1.0b538 is far and away SUPERIOR to what I first got to use!

I had NO working dictionary-lookup, NO Secure Mobipocket support, NO Go To, No ability to turn page-flashing on/off, and the list goes on and on. Bookeen has made tremendous strides in what features Boo Reader offers.

Is it as complete as MobiReader 6.x? No. Is it moving in that direction? Yes. Is it worth the $350-$450 we paid? Well, no. But then, Boo Reader is NOT the entirety of the Cybook. Nosirree, Bob! The vast majority of what we paid for is wrapped up in the hardware and the underlying OS! Believe you me, even if you go for a 'generic' e-ink device nearly exactly the same as the Cybook - but without Boo Reader - you're going to pay about $280-$325 (including shipping). And at that you'll have a device which can read TXT, HTML and *some* PDF. I've seen the "library" functions these offer and they're not even as good as what Bookeen offers in the Cybook.

Granted, buying one of these means we can get a cheaper price, but then anyone who buys one is going to have to figure out how to: 1) "upgrade" FBReader to allow reading of Secure Mobipocket and, 2) "port" FBReader to install and run on the device - or - 3) write from scratch a custom Secure Mobipocket reader for the device. This can be done. But it's going to take some time. Gosh durn! By shelling out $350-$450 a customer can get 85% of what Mobipocket Reader supplies on that same basic hardware framework.

Given that most customers are NOT going to want to have to become C++/Python/Java application and systems programmers, I think you might want to cut Bookeen some slack. But that's just my humble opinion.

Derek

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Try it. See if the Windows Mobi reader has the same bug. My guess would be that it does. I'd be interested to know!

I would if I used Windows regularly. I will not reboot my laptop just to check this. My observation was done with _1632_ from Baen. The procudure was: jump to page 50, page forward until you see some text you recognize like "chapter 4" and count the number of pages (17 in my case). Jump to page 67 and notice that you are 5 pages off.

[slayda]

I keep checking this thread hoping to find "News from Bookeen about firmware upgrades" but except for the first entry --- nothing!!