What kills a book for you?

[anamardoll]

Have I already said "sci-fi authors who don't think that the world will be different several hundred years from now in terms of country-boundaries and allegiances, racial groupings, language nuances, and technological advances"? Because THAT kills a book for me.

[Anke Wehner]

Originally Posted by Frida Fantastic

Interestingly enough, I enjoy reading about crapsack worlds where everything is terrible, as long as it maintains some wit, or a sense of humour, or has a different take on things. I don't like it when books with dark settings are take themselves way too seriously. The darkest stories I've enjoyed with asshole anti-heroes and seriously crapsack-why-aren't-you-all-dead-yet settings still had a refreshingly twisted sort of humour. There has to be bits of humour to everything, whether it be dry humour, wry, off-beat, slapstick, gallows, twisted, etc. Even just a few quips at the right moments will make a book much better. Humour is part how people put up with life, and I like seeing that reflected in fiction.

I haven't read much like that, but I agree 100% with the principle. Some delicious snark can make most things enjoyable.
It's the "this is so HARDCORE BRUTALLY DARK!!!" or the "Look how tragic! You must sympatise with him/her! Because their life was so TRAGIC and SAD" things that take themselves seriously that don't work for me.


I thought of something else: Character names that are real words not usually used as a name.
It's not a hard and fast rule - if there's a whole culture that uses names like that, it tends to work, or if it's a comedy (Thursday Next), or if it's apparently a nickname (say, Shadow in American Gods), but in a lot of cases it puts me off.

It's particularly distracting for me when the name is a German word in an English text, e.g. Stammel in The Sheepfarmer's Daughter (though that one had other problems, too), or a book recommended to me recently I decided I wouldn't be able to enjoy because the main character was named "Rache" (revenge).
Things like that are like mixed up homonyms: They push me right out of the story, so if they happen too often, they kill the book.

[Frida Fantastic]

Originally Posted by Anke Wehner

I haven't read much like that, but I agree 100% with the principle. Some delicious snark can make most things enjoyable.
It's the "this is so HARDCORE BRUTALLY DARK!!!" or the "Look how tragic! You must sympatise with him/her! Because their life was so TRAGIC and SAD" things that take themselves seriously that don't work for me.

I think the perfect example of dark but really witty (in a black humour sort of way) is the comic Preacher by Garth Ennis. It's insanely crapsack, low-brow, and offensive, but also incredibly funny. I haven't found that many books that are as consistently dark and witty. I think what allows me to tolerate super crapsack worlds is whether the darkness feels like "life is crap, but we go on", instead of "my life is terrible, please pity me, I am an angst machine." Former is realistic, latter is melodrama. Authors have to manage the tone properly and not make it feel contrived.

[orlok]

to "Preacher". Very good, very funny.

[Caesius]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

A lot of fanfic is written in present tense.

Not a fan of fanfic. Actually, that isn't fair to say. I just don't read it. I prefer to stick to canon. When Babylon 5 novels came out, I was so disappointed with all but 2 of them (this is before some trilogies were released, which were all considered official parts of the story). Those two books I did like were the only two that were written with the creator's direct input and considered to be episodes in book form. They are canon. They enhanced the existing story. Anything else IMO detracts. Something good that didn't really happen is just as disappointing to me as something written poorly. Some are familiar with the final episode of Star Trek The Next Generation. Nothing actually happened. Technically, Picard comes out in his jam jams, and asks Worf what the star date is. Then he's asked by Troi if everything is alright, and he smiles and says, "Yes. I think I'll go back to bed now" (I'm paraphrasing, but not by much). End of story. Zero consequence. Well, there was one consequence. But they seemed to go through a lot of trouble and spent a great deal of screen time just to get Picard to join the rest of the crew at a card game. Guess I sound bitter. Not a fan - save two episodes ("Family" and "The Inner Light"). Anyhow that's irrelevant. But THAT is basically what I get from fanfic -- zero consequence or impact on later events or characters.

All that ranting aside, I DO get the first-person thing now. After reading the responses, I remembered that some pulp detective novels were written that way. Then I couldn't believe I had forgotten what it was like to have that first person narrative in my head.

Thanks for the responses.

[Caesius]

Originally Posted by Anke Wehner

I thought of something else: Character names that are real words not usually used as a name.
...or if it's apparently a nickname (say, Shadow in American Gods), but in a lot of cases it puts me off.

Or Wednesday, from the same book. I love magical reality or whatever genre American Gods, Good Omens, Neverwhere and stories like those fit into. Winter's Tale is a favorite of mine. But I do recall reading somewhere that Mark Helprin rejects that genre label... At least for Winter's Tale. I enjoy reading of the kind of fantastical world where many of the people in that world know nothing but the reality we are used to seeing day in and day out. But if you look in the right place, alter your perspective, open your mind, accidentally put the wrong kind of mushrooms in your salad, then you see there is another world. The real world of magic.
Woah... listen to me. I sound like this flighty girl I used to have a crush on in Jr. High that loved unicorns, wrote in wispy elven-looking script and even wrote a poem that described herself as the The Wind. Guess that's what I get for writing here when I have only just gotten out of the hospital and am still on pain meds for my kidney stones.

Please consider this before you judge. By all means judge. But just consider that, then go ahead and judge.

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

So far... and granted I am not that far into it yet, I have not gotten IN to the story so I can not be thrown out of it. The wall of well researched details is insane.. this might become the second book in a decade that I do not finish... maybe it will get better if I stick it out some...

Just watned to update it got much better. The author will still go on multi-page (well ebook pages) showing off of his great research, but most of the book is good. About half way through... so we will see. I almost wonder if it was filler to get the page count up since its a traditional publisher.

[spindlegirl]

Authors who cannot spell or render a grammatically correct sentence.

Pretentious attempts to write dialogue without quotation marks nor with the tag of who said what.

Out of context sex scenes. I can handle a little in a book. But if a sex scene starts on page 26 and by page 187 they are STILL doin' it, I'm gonna delete the book on site (or throw it out if it's a DTB).

Graphic violence.

Characters who I wind up liking in a story but then they aren't mentioned again, ever. What happened to them? Just because they're minor doesn't mean you have to reduce them to extras.

Turnoffs to e-books, are covers, which when browsing thumbnails in cover mode on my kobo, are indistinguishable blobs! (not a deal breaker, but I don't want to have to change mode, just to see what I am looking at.)

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by spindlegirl

Turnoffs to e-books, are covers, which when browsing thumbnails in cover mode on my kobo, are indistinguishable blobs! (not a deal breaker, but I don't want to have to change mode, just to see what I am looking at.)

I have never even seen a Kobo first hand, what would cause this?

[jupstin]

I don't know if "kills" is exactly the right phrase, but scenes where the protagonist is described while he/she is looking at him/herself in a mirror really drive me nuts.

<writing_snobbery>
It seems like an attempt to fit character description into the action of the story. It's basically a case of taking "show don't tell" too far. The impulse to avoid overtly expository text is actually commendable...just don't tell me that the protagonist is admiring his "chestnut curls" or noticing "for the first time that his square jaw and aquiline nose made him resemble, in profile, both his father and his grandfather."
</writing_snobbery>

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by jupstin

<writing_snobbery>
It seems like an attempt to fit character description into the action of the story. It's basically a case of taking "show don't tell" too far. The impulse to avoid overtly expository text is actually commendable...just don't tell me that the protagonist is admiring his "chestnut curls" or noticing "for the first time that his square jaw and aquiline nose made him resemble, in profile, both his father and his grandfather."
</writing_snobbery>

Riffing off this, I dislike it when the character TELLS ME what they look like. Sookie Stackhouse informing me how well she fills out her waitress uniform comes to mind, as does Camille from Sisters of the Moon telling me that the drapes match... oh, nevermind.

I dislike it when the character acknowledges the reader; at least the mirror-admiring is a little less HI YOU ARE READING ABOUT ME, NO?

[VydorScope]

Originally Posted by jupstin

I don't know if "kills" is exactly the right phrase, but scenes where the protagonist is described while he/she is looking at him/herself in a mirror really drive me nuts.

<writing_snobbery>
It seems like an attempt to fit character description into the action of the story. It's basically a case of taking "show don't tell" too far. The impulse to avoid overtly expository text is actually commendable...just don't tell me that the protagonist is admiring his "chestnut curls" or noticing "for the first time that his square jaw and aquiline nose made him resemble, in profile, both his father and his grandfather."
</writing_snobbery>

What if its related to the story... like for example, Bob wakes up and sees himself in the mirror and notices a new scar on his face that was not there before. Or Mike looks in the mirror and says, "I shaved my head for that woman!"

To me at least I see that as valid in a story.

[NVash]

A main character that I cant stand and want dead. Thatll kill the story immediately and make me want to read something else.

Huge words that Ive never seen or heard before. I dont want to have to frequently take breaks to get a dictionary or thesaurus.

[jupstin]

Originally Posted by VydorScope

What if its related to the story... like for example, Bob wakes up and sees himself in the mirror and notices a new scar on his face that was not there before. Or Mike looks in the mirror and says, "I shaved my head for that woman!"

To me at least I see that as valid in a story.

That's definitely an exception. It got me thinking about exactly what I meant in the first place. I think I can safely say that I don't like it when a mirror description is the primary way of learning what a character looks like, and this is especially true when it's presented in such a way that the character seems to be intently analyzing the way he/she looks. Your examples were great reminders that the mirror "thing" can work. I guess in general I want the situation to be believable and not come off as an excuse to accomplish exposition. I don't think that most people spend great amounts of time in front of mirrors considering themselves in objective, descriptive ways.

[anamardoll]

That makes sense, when it's like OMG I'VE NOT SEEN MY FACE BEFORE. I have seen that done, as you say.

We should re-title this from "things that kill a book for you" to "stuff that sort of irks you in a book". Most of MY last few examples, anyway, wouldn't cause me to stop reading so much as roll my eyes.

On that theme: Elvis (or similar) cameos in vampire/immortal/fantastical settings. "Dead Before Dark" could have had all the Elvis bits taken out and it would have been infinitely better and less campy dumb. I liked the book anyway, but no Elvis. Just... no.