MobileRead threads that never end

pilotbob · 04-02-2008, 02:44 PM

With all the time I am saving by not adding to the "threads that never end" I have decided to start this new thread in the hopes that it will too never end.

BTW: A "thread that never ends" includes a single thread that goes on for pages and pages sometimes over months or years. Or, a thread that just keeps getting restarted over and over again.

So, here is, from my perspective, a top list of "threads that never end" which should STOP NOW.

1. The DRM/Piracy threads
This is a general discussion about whether DRM is good, bad, needed, can be made good/bad etc. It also generally includes arguments about whether piracy increases or decreases book sales. To me there are generally several sides to this argument:
DRM sucks and isn't needed.
DRM sucks but it is needed if publishers are to embrace eBooks.
DRM sucks but is 100% needed to prove I am a good person
DRM is great but not needed
DRM is great
Please don't start a thread about there being more than the above 5 generalizations, because it will never end. NO ONE IS GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MIND.

2. The PDF threads
This is generally started by new users who bought a eBook Reader to read the PDF "ebooks" that they have because the marketing page listed PDF as a supported file format. There is generally alot of great info that has probably been repeated 2000 times in each of these threads. Can't we refer these people to a FAQ or the Wiki or do we just like to hear ourselves type?

3. The Sony/CyBook/Kindle is evil threads
This is a general free for all of trash talk. Stuff comes up like Amazon is locking everyone into their system, I wouldn't buy from Sony cause they are greedy (hmm... would hate for a company to make a profit), Bookeen is greedy because they price the Cybook the same in dollars, pounds, and euros, CyBook software is "beta", Amazon is going to suck people in then start charging for Wispernet (hello they do charge you for it every time you buy a book) blah blah blah.

4. The Backlight vs non-Backlight threads
Ok, some people want a device with a backlit screen, others don't. Why do we have to call each other names and such because they are a do'er or don't'er here?

5. The "I need page numbers" threads
This one baffles me. Once again, two opinions here. Can't we all just agree to disagree and go read a book or something?

6. The "my book reader's better than yours" threads
Ok, there is a whole subforum dedicated to this. Once again, you would think listing the pros and cons of each device on the Wiki would be the first place to send people. Subjective opinons are great and can NOT be argued about. Can they?

7. The "I ordered mine this date with this order number" threads
Ok, I can people want to know how long orders are taking from order to shipping. But really, these threads just seem noise to me. Order the thing and be patient.

EDIT: Add later:

8. eBook Prices
Should they be more or less than pbooks? Should they be less if the book has DRM, etc.

9. Do digital books (ebooks) need margins?
Yes, this "discussion" seems to go on and on in many threads and forums.

10. Is copyright violation theft?
This is a common question/discussion here... is copyright theft.

11. Does piracy affect sales?
This is actually very prevalent and I'm surprised I didn't put it on my original list. There are of course two general opinions. 1) Sales are affected. 2)Sales aren't affected. However, some people in camp 1 think piracy increases sales because it increases exposure and also provides a try before you buy mentality. Others think a pirated copy is a sale lost. Certainly this is how ebook, music and software publisher talk about it in "millions lost" to piracy.

Don't get me wrong, I love this web site, and have learned alot. But, sometimes I just shake my head at the length and repetitiveness of some of the threads. Even worse, sometimes I join in!

Please feel free to add to this thread!

BOb

Nate the great · 04-02-2008, 03:01 PM

Why don't we all take a voluntary pledge to never read a DRM or piracy thread? (If you read it, you will be compelled to post.So don't read it!)

I think it would help kill those threads. The others I don't have a problem with.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 04-02-2008, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Why don't we all take a voluntary pledge to never read a DRM or piracy thread? (If you read it, you will be compelled to post.So don't read it!)

Good point... we all just seem to start yelling at our respective brick walls. And for the first time in over a decade, I seem to be actually pissing people off.

So, okay, I'm good to go cold-turkey on DRM and piracy threads. I'm taking the last ones out of my subscriptions now.

TadW · 04-02-2008, 04:14 PM

With all due respect, I think there is a reason why there are threads that never end.

What's old news to some of us can be a completely new phenomenon to other people. Let's always give them a chance to share their opinion to us. Repetitive? Perhaps. But so is politics and the world we live in.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 04-02-2008, 04:31 PM

Also a good point. But I believe that there are a few of us who have taken these discussions to the extreme and let them devolve into petty bickering and name-calling, which has made them not only never-ending discussions, but largely pointless discussions as well--at least as regards the DRM threads.

I don't want to be considered a "discussion-killer" (as some people here now clearly consider me, and apparently much, much worse), so I'm willing to bow out of those areas and let others discuss at will.

pilotbob · 04-02-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

With all due respect, I think there is a reason why there are threads that never end.

OP was somewhat tounge-in-cheek. (Somewhat not).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

What's old news to some of us can be a completely new phenomenon to other people. Let's always give them a chance to share their opinion of us. Repetitive? Perhaps. But so is politics and the world we live in.

Vote for me, I promise CHANGE!

BOb

TadW · 04-02-2008, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilotbob

Vote for me, I promise CHANGE!

No doubt

/me sends his vote to Bob.

zelda_pinwheel · 04-02-2008, 04:54 PM

...and the new Thread That Will Never End is off to a running start !

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Why don't we all take a voluntary pledge to never read a DRM or piracy thread? (If you read it, you will be compelled to post.So don't read it!)

...Must... resist... ...Eyes... irresistably... drawn... ggrrrr... arg !!!

JSWolf · 04-02-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

5. The "I need page numbers" threads
This one baffles me. Once again, two opinions here. Can't we all just agree to disagree and go read a book or something?

We actually have two such threads now because the Gen3 does not show page numbers.

ProfJulie · 04-02-2008, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TadW

With all due respect, I think there is a reason why there are threads that never end.

What's old news to some of us can be a completely new phenomenon to other people. Let's always give them a chance to share their opinion to us. Repetitive? Perhaps. But so is politics and the world we live in.

Sure, by why can't new members read through the forum and learn about it from the old threads. I doubt any one's opinion has not already been voiced ad nauseum in those old threads (nothing new under the sun and what not....)I have not been participating in many of those threads for a couple of reasons.....people are not going to change their mind, so debate is not productive, and I really don't like knowing so much about people. The DRM/copywrite/darknet debate depresses me to no end....

NatCh · 04-02-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProfJulie

Sure, by why can't new members read through the forum and learn about it from the old threads.

No reason they can't, but going by the number of new arrivals who start new threads discussing the various "never-ending" topics, there are evidently a host of reasons they won't.

Summing these things up in a FAQ or the wiki (which any member can edit:

,

, say no more) is a good idea, and being able to point/link to it and say "this will answer many, if not all of your questions" would save some time and effort. I do note, however, that occasionally new bits do come out of the old discussions, but I also admit it's fairly infrequent.

Realistically, since it's mainly new arrivals that restart the discussions, the problem is communicating to them that these horses are dead is the real challenge: particularly, without running them off.

I'd rather explain the "why A4 PDF's look like rubbish on a 6" screen" repeatedly, than give new arrivals the impression that we longer-term members don't have time for them until they've read the entire forum's discussion history.

Nate the great · 04-02-2008, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

Realistically, since it's mainly new arrivals that restart the discussions, the problem is communicating to them that these horses are dead is the real challenge: particularly, without running them off.

I'd rather explain the "why A4 PDF's look like rubbish on a 6" screen" repeatedly, than give new arrivals the impression that we longer-term members don't have time for them until they've read the entire forum's discussion history.

This brought to mind a couple of forums I don't visit anymore. This is one of the reasons why.

NatCh · 04-02-2008, 10:49 PM

Me too, Nate, me too.

That "not running folks off" thing is one of MobileRead's greatest strengths, in my opinion. And I figure it's well worth a some repetitive posts to protect, no matter how weary I grow of the repetitions.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 04-02-2008, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatCh

I'd rather explain the "why A4 PDF's look like rubbish on a 6" screen" repeatedly, than give new arrivals the impression that we longer-term members don't have time for them until they've read the entire forum's discussion history.

No, we don't want to give that impression. Given that, a FAQ or Wiki would indeed be a good idea. Maybe even a compilation of any comprehensive threads or thread entries on a given subject (if such a thing could be determined).

NatCh · 04-02-2008, 10:58 PM

It wouldn't have to be the "ultimate" explanation, just any reasonably complete one would do -- I imagine that there are literally scores of such on these topics that would serve the purpose.

If there was something important left out of the picked one, it could certainly be added in: I don't see any reason that a post shouldn't be edited, even pretty radically, if it were being turned into a wiki or FAQ entry.

04-02-2008, 02:44 PM	#1
pilotbob Grand Sorcerer Posts: 19,832 Karma: 11844413 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Tampa, FL USA Device: Kindle Touch	MobileRead threads that never end With all the time I am saving by not adding to the "threads that never end" I have decided to start this new thread in the hopes that it will too never end. BTW: A "thread that never ends" includes a single thread that goes on for pages and pages sometimes over months or years. Or, a thread that just keeps getting restarted over and over again. So, here is, from my perspective, a top list of "threads that never end" which should STOP NOW. 1. The DRM/Piracy threads This is a general discussion about whether DRM is good, bad, needed, can be made good/bad etc. It also generally includes arguments about whether piracy increases or decreases book sales. To me there are generally several sides to this argument: DRM sucks and isn't needed. DRM sucks but it is needed if publishers are to embrace eBooks. DRM sucks but is 100% needed to prove I am a good person DRM is great but not needed DRM is great Please don't start a thread about there being more than the above 5 generalizations, because it will never end. NO ONE IS GOING TO CHANGE THEIR MIND. 2. The PDF threads This is generally started by new users who bought a eBook Reader to read the PDF "ebooks" that they have because the marketing page listed PDF as a supported file format. There is generally alot of great info that has probably been repeated 2000 times in each of these threads. Can't we refer these people to a FAQ or the Wiki or do we just like to hear ourselves type? 3. The Sony/CyBook/Kindle is evil threads This is a general free for all of trash talk. Stuff comes up like Amazon is locking everyone into their system, I wouldn't buy from Sony cause they are greedy (hmm... would hate for a company to make a profit), Bookeen is greedy because they price the Cybook the same in dollars, pounds, and euros, CyBook software is "beta", Amazon is going to suck people in then start charging for Wispernet (hello they do charge you for it every time you buy a book) blah blah blah. 4. The Backlight vs non-Backlight threads Ok, some people want a device with a backlit screen, others don't. Why do we have to call each other names and such because they are a do'er or don't'er here? 5. The "I need page numbers" threads This one baffles me. Once again, two opinions here. Can't we all just agree to disagree and go read a book or something? 6. The "my book reader's better than yours" threads Ok, there is a whole subforum dedicated to this. Once again, you would think listing the pros and cons of each device on the Wiki would be the first place to send people. Subjective opinons are great and can NOT be argued about. Can they? 7. The "I ordered mine this date with this order number" threads Ok, I can people want to know how long orders are taking from order to shipping. But really, these threads just seem noise to me. Order the thing and be patient. EDIT: Add later: 8. eBook Prices Should they be more or less than pbooks? Should they be less if the book has DRM, etc. 9. Do digital books (ebooks) need margins? Yes, this "discussion" seems to go on and on in many threads and forums. 10. Is copyright violation theft? This is a common question/discussion here... is copyright theft. 11. Does piracy affect sales? This is actually very prevalent and I'm surprised I didn't put it on my original list. There are of course two general opinions. 1) Sales are affected. 2)Sales aren't affected. However, some people in camp 1 think piracy increases sales because it increases exposure and also provides a try before you buy mentality. Others think a pirated copy is a sale lost. Certainly this is how ebook, music and software publisher talk about it in "millions lost" to piracy. Don't get me wrong, I love this web site, and have learned alot. But, sometimes I just shake my head at the length and repetitiveness of some of the threads. Even worse, sometimes I join in! Please feel free to add to this thread! BOb Last edited by pilotbob; 10-18-2008 at 10:09 AM.

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04-02-2008, 03:01 PM	#2
Nate the great Sir Penguin of Edinburgh Posts: 12,375 Karma: 23555235 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: DC Metro area Device: Shake a stick plus 1	Why don't we all take a voluntary pledge to never read a DRM or piracy thread? (If you read it, you will be compelled to post.So don't read it!) I think it would help kill those threads. The others I don't have a problem with.

04-02-2008, 04:14 PM	#4
TadW Uebermensch Posts: 2,583 Karma: 1094606 Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Italy Device: Kindle	With all due respect, I think there is a reason why there are threads that never end. What's old news to some of us can be a completely new phenomenon to other people. Let's always give them a chance to share their opinion to us. Repetitive? Perhaps. But so is politics and the world we live in.

04-02-2008, 04:31 PM	#5
Steven Lyle Jordan Grand Sorcerer Posts: 8,478 Karma: 5171130 Join Date: Jan 2006 Device: none	Also a good point. But I believe that there are a few of us who have taken these discussions to the extreme and let them devolve into petty bickering and name-calling, which has made them not only never-ending discussions, but largely pointless discussions as well--at least as regards the DRM threads. I don't want to be considered a "discussion-killer" (as some people here now clearly consider me, and apparently much, much worse), so I'm willing to bow out of those areas and let others discuss at will.

04-02-2008, 10:49 PM	#13
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Me too, Nate, me too. That "not running folks off" thing is one of MobileRead's greatest strengths, in my opinion. And I figure it's well worth a some repetitive posts to protect, no matter how weary I grow of the repetitions.

04-02-2008, 10:58 PM	#15
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	It wouldn't have to be the "ultimate" explanation, just any reasonably complete one would do -- I imagine that there are literally scores of such on these topics that would serve the purpose. If there was something important left out of the picked one, it could certainly be added in: I don't see any reason that a post shouldn't be edited, even pretty radically, if it were being turned into a wiki or FAQ entry.