Are Fair Use Rights coming to an end?

[Andrew H.]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

Sadly, at present, the book situation is nowhere near where the music business was.

The money involved was huge, as was the scale of bootlegging, and the industry had to find an acceptable compromise with an existing fait accompli, so they they could still make money.

I fear the consumer side of the equation with books is nowhere near being in a powerful enough position to seriously affect any of the publishing side's decision. We just aint strong enough, in numbers or power.

IMO, the biggest difference is the technology. *Anyone* with a computer can rip a CD to an mp3 in less than five minutes; most programs that people already have will automatically label the tracks and even download the album artwork. In an hour you can rip 15-20 CDs, whether you own them, borrowed them from a friend, or borrowed them from a library.

Far fewer people have scanners at home, and scanning a book is time consuming, involves a lot of user input, and introduces OCR errors into the book. I suspect that 95%+ of people who have an mp3 player have ripped at least one CD. Probably less than 1/10 of 1% of people who own an e-reader have scanned a book and put it on their e-reader.

One consequence of the inconvenience of scanning books as opposed to ripping CDs is that DRM is much more valuable for e-books than it is for mp3s. Because it's much easier to get an mp3 directly from the source than it is for books.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by taustin

No. You are, as usual, incorrect.

About what? The constitution?

What about my human right to access any and all information that I desire? I don't see how I could be wrong about that. Let's just call it use and be done with it.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by sabredog

My installation for K4PC updated a couple of weeks or so. Is there a way to stop it auto-updating, or will older versions simply cease to work with new Amazon ebook releases?

There is an option you can turn off to stop K4PC from auto updating. Unless of course Amazon has taken that out of newer versions.

[Phogg]

Originally Posted by Andrew H.

IMO, the biggest difference is the technology. *Anyone* with a computer can rip a CD to an mp3 in less than five minutes; most programs that people already have will automatically label the tracks and even download the album artwork. In an hour you can rip 15-20 CDs, whether you own them, borrowed them from a friend, or borrowed them from a library.

Far fewer people have scanners at home, and scanning a book is time consuming, involves a lot of user input, and introduces OCR errors into the book. I suspect that 95%+ of people who have an mp3 player have ripped at least one CD. Probably less than 1/10 of 1% of people who own an e-reader have scanned a book and put it on their e-reader.

One consequence of the inconvenience of scanning books as opposed to ripping CDs is that DRM is much more valuable for e-books than it is for mp3s. Because it's much easier to get an mp3 directly from the source than it is for books.

The parallel does not break down one bit.

how many people even had a PC back when a lot of us got into burning our own CDs? What did one cost if you didnt build it...or even if you did? How long did it take to rip a CD, and how many tries to get an unflawed rip? Much less time to manually insert all the track metadata.

And then chip players came out driving the demand for ripped music in thelate 90s with the RIO players, and internet databases started taking the work out of it.

But where we are now with books is very analogous to the early days of digital music. And the biggest threat book publishers face is exactly the same as the biggest threat music publishers faced...masses of artists who want to use technology available to be heard by a public with only so much buying power.

The pie will be cut up into a whole lot of pieces, and legislation will not stop it.

Again.

[speedlever]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is an option you can turn off to stop K4PC from auto updating. Unless of course Amazon has taken that out of newer versions.

It's still there in 1.6:

[Fbone]

A quick glance through the web seems to confirm that people are having problems with K4PC. It is forcing them to reregister where you must delete your library and redownload all your ebooks from Amazon with the new DRM scheme applied.

Only specific books are affected for the moment.

[sabredog]

I was using Amazon as a convenient way to buy my ebooks but that looks like it will most definitely change now.

[melmac]

Ok so I've quickly read through these 6 pages and I just want to make sure I have the story staight I am a Sony owner I ocasionally purchase books from amazon and free them the usual way. With Amazons planned DRM changes it may be either be very difficult or impossible to free them therefore as a Sony owner I will no longer be able to purchase books from Amazon in fact anyone who doesn't own a kindle will not be able to use books purchased from Amazon correct ?

[pholy]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Fair use rights are part of the rights package written into the United States constitution yes? (your constitutional rights may vary) Some might say that these fair use rights fall under the broader category of basic human rights, i.e. the right to read whatever you want, whenever and however you want.

...snip...

Originally Posted by taustin

No. You are, as usual, incorrect.

Originally Posted by Giggleton

About what? The constitution?

...snip....

Section 8 of the US Constitution says (in part):

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

That's all it says; the copyright and patent laws were created after that, so Fair Use came later. But it is pretty well established in the US.

I don't want to discuss the other matters of opinion presented - they belong in P&R.

[pholy]

Originally Posted by melmac

Ok so I've quickly read through these 6 pages and I just want to make sure I have the story staight I am a Sony owner I ocasionally purchase books from amazon and free them the usual way. With Amazons planned DRM changes it may be either be very difficult or impossible to free them therefore as a Sony owner I will no longer be able to purchase books from Amazon in fact anyone who doesn't own a kindle will not be able to use books purchased from Amazon correct ?

Stricktly speaking, you don't need a Kindle.... but you would need whatever Kindle app Amazon supplied for whatever device you had. And if Amazon chose not to supply code for your device, you'd be up the old creek without a paddle - so to speak.

[kc24zz]

Originally Posted by Fbone

A quick glance through the web seems to confirm that people are having problems with K4PC. It is forcing them to reregister where you must delete your library and redownload all your ebooks from Amazon with the new DRM scheme applied.

It happened to me today. Running 1.4.1- with updating off. They stopped Kindle for pc, downloaded something named Kindle for pc2 and required me to register. Now none of the tools work.

Since I mostly purchased backlist titles from amazon, it's the authors who lose in this. I will not purchase anything I can't backup.

[sabredog]

Well that is that then. They have lost me as a customer for ebooks.

I will move over to Kobo and try their service.

[HansTWN]

I am running a much older version of K4PC, that still worked fine a minute ago.

[sabredog]

Is there an archive for older K4PC versions anywhere I wonder....

Prolonging the inevitable I guess.

[melmac]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Well that is that then. They have lost me as a customer for ebooks.

I will move over to Kobo and try their service.

Unfortunatly me too I wonder how many of their ebook customers were non kindle owners ?

I've used Kobo quite a bit and like them just wish they were slightly more competitive price wise. With the use of Hotspot Shield I have also brought quite a few books from Barnes and Noble so I'll be getting more from their as well.