News from Bookeen about firmware upgrade

[tompe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Have you ever read Battlefield Earth by L. Ron Hubbard? I read it because a friend recommended it to me. The real problem with it was that it looked like it could have ended in a number of different places and that Hubbard just kept taking on mare words that had no real baring on the story.

For me it ended after half the book. I just refused to read more. One of the few books I have not finished.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Some people are having issues with bookmarks which is why they want page numbers. But if the next firmware fixes the bookmarks then there really is no need for page numbers.

Do not claim this as a general truth. I need page number for many other reasons.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Ortep

The same way I do it in a p-book.

I was somewere in the middle, total size is 700 pages, so it must be around 350. Hmmmm...I already read this part, so it must be 50 higher...Aha...that is new. So it must be 25 lower. Aha...read that part. I'n within 25 pages now, on the avarage 12. Page forward from here

Except that the page forward is so slow that this method is not working. I actually notice page number when I read and remember some of them.

[astra]

Originally Posted by tompe

Do not claim this as a general truth. I need page number for many other reasons.

Although CyBook looks like a nice alternative to Sony, I will not consider it(well its next generation brother) at all unless they implement as clear page numbering as Sony does atm. I really envy you guys who can do without page numbers.

[Ortep]

Originally Posted by tompe

Except that the page forward is so slow that this method is not working. I actually notice page number when I read and remember some of them.

Ok, add one stap more

I was somewere in the middle, total size is 700 pages, so it must be around 350. Hmmmm...I already read this part, so it must be 50 higher...Aha...that is new. So it must be 25 lower. Aha...read that part. I'n within 25 pages now, on the avarage 12. Page forward from here

Do not page forward from her, but increase with 12 and you are on an average of 6 pages from the correct one.

Page forward slow? It takes 0.75 second to switch a page. Add 0.2 seconds for the reaction time of the average human beeing. So you can turn a page about every second. Not much slower tha a p-book. But it means that even if you have to page forward 12 pages, you will find your page in about 15 seconds.

And even if you saw a page number a couple of minutes ago, you stil have the same procedure. Only you won't start at my 'educated' guess of 350 but at the 362 you have seen. That one is almost certainly to low, so you'll have to increase with 50 and follow the same procedure.

The trick with this binary search is that it really doesn't matter were you start. If, in my example, I didn't had a clue were to start, and made the stupid choice to begin at 690, the next step would have been 345, followed by 520 followed bij 430, 380 and so on. The numbers don't have to be exact, the only thing you have to do is split the difference until you are close enough. The difference between the last known number methode and the worst case is probably two guesses. The difference between the last known number and an educated guess is maximum one itteration and probably no difference at all.

[Ortep]

Originally Posted by astra

I really envy you guys who can do without page numbers.

I can do without them because they are meaningless numbers. If we talk about a book and I tell you I read something of importance on page 234, you almost certainly cannot find it on your reader because you have a different font size/type. And even if you come to my house to look it up, there is a big chance that it won't be on the same page anymore on my reader because first I was reading in my garden were the sun was shining and I changed the font size just before you arrived in the evening

The only more or less usefull number would be: Look at 45.56% of your book. That number won't change.

[JohnnyD]

Something not mentioned about page numbers (AFAIK): it gives you an extra way to put a value on a book, like "Wow! This is great, but it's only 200 pages, so I should cherish each and every page (word even)!".

Next to that it gives you a way to plan your bookreading; sometimes it happens that you know beforehand that you won't have much time to do serious reading in the next few weeks; you shouldn't start in a 1000+ page story, it would decrease the value you get from reading it, because it will be so very fragmented. It's perfectly OK however, to read a 200 page story in the same time because you'll easily finish it

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals you should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...

So for me, I would really like to have page numbers, including total page count. On screen. Not in the clumsy menus...

[bob_ninja]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Question... without page numbers, how does the Gen3 handle going to a specific part of the book?

Well it does have page numbers, except they are not displayed. It has a "Go to..." menu item wherein you type a page number to jump to. That screen actually displays the total number of pages, so clearly is aware of current page number and total, etc.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

Something not mentioned about page numbers (AFAIK): it gives you an extra way to put a value on a book, like "Wow! This is great, but it's only 200 pages, so I should cherish each and every page (word even)!".

Next to that it gives you a way to plan your bookreading; sometimes it happens that you know beforehand that you won't have much time to do serious reading in the next few weeks; you shouldn't start in a 1000+ page story, it would decrease the value you get from reading it, because it will be so very fragmented. It's perfectly OK however, to read a 200 page story in the same time because you'll easily finish it

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals should should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...

So for me, I would really like to have page numbers, including total page count. On screen. Not in the clumsy menus...

Exactly!

And sometimes you need to plan your reading because you have to finish a book or a set of stories before a specific time point or before a specific day.

[bob_ninja]

So there are several recurring issues:
- missing page numbers
- missing folders
-missing search

etc.

I don't know about you, but I was aware from reading this site that both Cybook and others have fairly limited features for organization of many books and searching/navigating them. Thus my expectations were adjusted a long time *BEFORE* making a decision to buy Cybook. I knew that folders would be delayed and effective navigation (mainly decent search feature) might never be available in this hardware. Yes, it is a defficiency.

If these features are very important to you then don't get this Cybook device. Simple as that. It is too early. Wait for Gen4 or Gen5, or whatever future version adds better navigational/organizational capabilities. I am sure at some point it will get a keyboard of some sort (maybe external). Then you'll be able to type search queries, organize folders, etc.

My point is that expectations are too high for Gen3.

As for it being a simple bundle of Linux and a few reader programs ....
We all know how buggy computer software can be. Too often we are fighting some bug that is causing crashes, etc. These folks had to not only bundle this software together but also make sure it doesn't crash every 5 minutes. You'd be surprised how difficult it can be. Granted they have a small set of programs, Linux, few readers and maybe some device drivers for SD cards. Not too much. Still the epxectations for a device like these in terms of stability are far higher than for a general purpose computer.

[Ortep]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

...you could compare it to eating in a restaurant: if you've got time (and money) go eat in a fancy restaurant and order a 7-course meal. And go for a single course fish&chips if you haven't got time. Both meals are perfectly enjoyable and for both meals you should know beforehand how much time (=pages) you've got to choose the right one...

The only problem is that the 7 course meal you had last week was so much you had to stop eating between courses and it took you 7 hours to eat. Your really found the third course outstanding. Great value for money.

And when I go there today on your recomendation they have a five course meal and I can't find course 3 that you liked so very much. Only because they decided to change the layout of the menu and printed it in another font. But basically I get the same food so it will not take me five hours to eat, but still the same seven hours it took you. And course three is combined with course four. Still great value for money.

[JohnnyD]

Originally Posted by Ortep

And when I go there today on your recomendation they have a five course meal and I can't find course 3 that you liked so very much. Only because they decided to change the layout of the menu and printed it in another font. But basically I get the same food so it will not take me five hours to eat, but still the same seven hours it took you. And course three is combined with course four. Still great value for money.

It's clear that the page count depends on font size, so it will be difficult to compare page counts between e-readers of different people. For my own personal reader however... I keep going back to one specific font in one specific size (I won't mention it, it would only spawn a different discussion ), so comparing book sizes for my own books is completely feasible.

[astra]

Originally Posted by Ortep

I can do without them because they are meaningless numbers. If we talk about a book and I tell you I read something of importance on page 234, you almost certainly cannot find it on your reader because you have a different font size/type. And even if you come to my house to look it up, there is a big chance that it won't be on the same page anymore on my reader because first I was reading in my garden were the sun was shining and I changed the font size just before you arrived in the evening

The only more or less usefull number would be: Look at 45.56% of your book. That number won't change.

I need page numbers for my personal use, not to share it with friends

[Sparrow]

Originally Posted by JohnnyD

It's clear that the page count depends on font size, so it will be difficult to compare page counts between e-readers of different people. For my own personal reader however... I keep going back to one specific font in one specific size (I won't mention it, it would only spawn a different discussion ), so comparing book sizes for my own books is completely feasible.

Exactly right on the last point! For people who stick with the same format, page numbers would be a boon.

And is comparing different counts difficult?
In the unlikely event you did want to share it with someone else, all you need do is say it was page 357 out of 970 in your format - and they can easily figure out it's page 252 out of 684 in theirs.

[Ortep]

Originally Posted by Sparrow

In the unlikely event you did want to share it with someone else, all you need do is say it was page 357 out of 970 in your format - and they can easily figure out it's page 252 out of 684 in theirs.

There is a name for that system, it is called percentage