Ganging up on Pirates... - Page 2

rogue_librarian · 07-08-2011, 02:47 AM

It's a very slippery slope, though, isn't it? Hasn't their line of defense always been "sorry, we're only the carrier"? If they do stoop down to "traffic inspections", however voluntary they may be for the time being, aren't they opening themselves up for all kinds of problems in the future? I mean, why stop with IP infringement? What about kiddie (and otherwise forbidden or morally objectionable) pron, illegal gambling, drug trafficking, ... you name it.

Xanthe · 07-08-2011, 02:51 AM

Seems to be smoke and mirrors to me, something that's not going to hold up to the first legal challenge when they try to throttle some grandma's internet service.

Though maybe it's just meant to be a cash cow, to try to recover some of the money they claim they are losing:

Quote:

Also, the fact that users are charged a $35 fee to appeal means that users are being charged just to engage in the process. Even though a parking ticket usually costs more than that, there isn’t typically a fee to content in court that you should never have received it in the first place.

http://www.publicknowledge.org/blog/...t-alert-system

I hope they are prepared to provide employment lists of all the people that the recording and film industry will supposedly be hiring when they stop losing all that income to those nasty pirates.

lestatar · 07-08-2011, 03:07 AM

^^ Great points folks. Indeed, I am no fan of piracy, but forgetting about issues like consumer dissatisfaction and perceived over-pricing of media, yes, my primary concern would be to avoid going down that very slippery slope rogue_librarian astutely mentions.

We will see - perhaps this is indeed more posturing and a way to generate revenue. Who knows at this point?

Still, I shudder to think of a day when mere rumors about the passing of government leaders are blocked and censored online [China, do you read this? You are making a huge mistake...]

mr ploppy · 07-08-2011, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xanthe

I hope they are prepared to provide employment lists of all the people that the recording and film industry will supposedly be hiring when they stop losing all that income to those nasty pirates.

It would be the local economy that would benefit the most if people were forced to go back to buying pirate disks from flea markets and the like. The people who know how to evade such detection methods would sell downloaded content to everyone else. That would give them a lot of disposable income to spend on other local businesses.

kennyc · 07-08-2011, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taustin

So far, it applies only to certain ISPs (all of which are either owned by, or own, media companies). It's entirely voluntary, and the press release is full of weasel words to boot. It's all noise, with no apparent substance.

Other than the service providers have already show they can cut services and be supported by the courts for whatever reason. This just provides more power for them to do as they please outside the law.

darknessangel · 07-08-2011, 06:57 AM

Enjoy your nazi internet! =P

FatDog · 07-08-2011, 03:07 PM

It's interesting when you learn how complex our world is...

Several years ago I worked for a company that distributed Radio Commercials around the country with PC's and Modems. We wanted to back up the commercials to CD's because advertising companies often re-ran the commercials months apart.

At that time - burners cost $3,000 and blank CD's were $13 apiece. Trying to save money I was hunting around to find cheaper prices. When I was talking to one distributor and asked how come these were so expensive he told me that every blank Audio Cassette, VHS tape and blank CD had a special tax. From that $13 - nearly a full dollar went to the Motion Picture and Recording industry to offset their possible losses from piracy.

If you have ever bought blank media - you have already paid a fee to the industry in case you pirate. If you ever used to buy a LOT of VHS tapes to time-shift TV shows or CD/DVD to backup your data - you have already paid for the crime.

I am against Piracy. The people who create music, movies and stories deserve payment if we enjoy their work. But the middle-men, the Studios and Labels have gotten money for years off of blank media sales sanctioned by the government.

So you've been taxed - let your conscious be your guide.

kennyc · 07-08-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDog

It's interesting when you learn how complex our world is...

Several years ago I worked for a company that distributed Radio Commercials around the country with PC's and Modems. We wanted to back up the commercials to CD's because advertising companies often re-ran the commercials months apart.

At that time - burners cost $3,000 and blank CD's were $13 apiece. Trying to save money I was hunting around to find cheaper prices. When I was talking to one distributor and asked how come these were so expensive he told me that every blank Audio Cassette, VHS tape and blank CD had a special tax. From that $13 - nearly a full dollar went to the Motion Picture and Recording industry to offset their possible losses from piracy.

If you have ever bought blank media - you have already paid a fee to the industry in case you pirate. If you ever used to buy a LOT of VHS tapes to time-shift TV shows or CD/DVD to backup your data - you have already paid for the crime.

I am against Piracy. The people who create music, movies and stories deserve payment if we enjoy their work. But the middle-men, the Studios and Labels have gotten money for years off of blank media sales sanctioned by the government.

So you've been taxed - let your conscious be your guide.

Good point! I wouldn't say that gives one the right to pirate things(e.g. break the law), but I would say it's time to revisit that law and or change it if it is still on the books.

I don't suppose you have specific references to the law itself do you?

wodin · 07-08-2011, 03:40 PM

Pardon me for sounding like a conspiracy theory nut, but it sounds to me like and excuse for ISPs the throttle bandwidth whilst pointing the finger of blame on the dastardly consumers!

kennyc · 07-08-2011, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wodin

Pardon me for sounding like a conspiracy theory nut, but it sounds to me like and excuse for ISPs the throttle bandwidth whilst pointing the finger of blame on the dastardly consumers!

That's exactly my feeling.

taustin · 07-08-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kennyc

Other than the service providers have already show they can cut services and be supported by the courts for whatever reason. This just provides more power for them to do as they please outside the law.

If the courts back them - and they do, because inevitable, they customers they're cutting off have broken a contract - they are are, by definition, within the law, even if you don't like the results.

kennyc · 07-08-2011, 04:37 PM

just one more example of who really runs the country.....

Hellmark · 07-08-2011, 04:50 PM

One of the problems is that how are they able to effectively track who does what. I've been with Charter for just about 4 months now, and I do very little downloading of anything anymore (I've stopped using iTunes, and stuff like that). Most of what I use my net connection for at home is streaming netflix, or a little websurfing. About 2 months ago, I get a letter from charter, accusing me of downloading several episodes of Boardwalk Empire, which I didn't do. I've never even seen the show, and really have no interest in it. I really have no defense against it, since how can you prove you didn't do something, especially when at the time I didn't even have my computer set up at my apartment at the time they claimed it happened (I had just moved). It is pretty much my word verses theirs.

kennyc · 07-08-2011, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

One of the problems is that how are they able to effectively track who does what. I've been with Charter for just about 4 months now, and I do very little downloading of anything anymore (I've stopped using iTunes, and stuff like that). Most of what I use my net connection for at home is streaming netflix, or a little websurfing. About 2 months ago, I get a letter from charter, accusing me of downloading several episodes of Boardwalk Empire, which I didn't do. I've never even seen the show, and really have no interest in it. I really have no defense against it, since how can you prove you didn't do something, especially when at the time I didn't even have my computer set up at my apartment at the time they claimed it happened (I had just moved). It is pretty much my word verses theirs.

Exactly and with the courts already on their side, there is little consumers can do. This is the problem as far as I'm concerned.

Hellmark · 07-08-2011, 05:24 PM

In my case, the letter stated that I downloaded the shows basically within 24 hours of becoming a customer, when I didn't have my computer at my apartment for another 2 weeks after that date. When Charter enabled my service, I only had my Slim PS3 and my one TV. If they can show how I was using bit torrent on a bone stock PS3, and nothing else, I'd love to see that trick.

If I am at the mercy of my ISP, then I am SOL. In my case, I've had 8 outages in the 4 months I've been with charter, 7 of them for 12 or more hours, they've tried altering my plan without my permission (to charge me more than the rate initially agreed to) by claiming that the plan I originally signed up for wasn't a valid offer (note that this was like a week or so after I already had their service), they attempted to charge me for a service visit when they had to go and fix their equipment (a filter in the junction box that feeds the signal to my apartment building had blown), plus numerous other issues (like giving me the incorrect type of modem originally). My ISP is inept, and if I can't rely on them to offer consistant service, there is no way I can rely on them to make sure they have the right person when punishing for pirating (and as I've said, they've fingered me for it already, when it wasn't me).

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07-08-2011, 02:47 AM	#16
rogue_librarian Guru Posts: 973 Karma: 4269175 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Europe Device: Pocketbook Basic 613	It's a very slippery slope, though, isn't it? Hasn't their line of defense always been "sorry, we're only the carrier"? If they do stoop down to "traffic inspections", however voluntary they may be for the time being, aren't they opening themselves up for all kinds of problems in the future? I mean, why stop with IP infringement? What about kiddie (and otherwise forbidden or morally objectionable) pron, illegal gambling, drug trafficking, ... you name it.

07-08-2011, 03:07 AM	#18
lestatar LB's lolz Mutt Minion Posts: 2,902 Karma: 5700001 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Hong Kong now but NYC forever Device: Kindle3, GalaxyTab, BB Bold9700, BB 8300, Sony Clie, Palm Vx, Palm III	^^ Great points folks. Indeed, I am no fan of piracy, but forgetting about issues like consumer dissatisfaction and perceived over-pricing of media, yes, my primary concern would be to avoid going down that very slippery slope rogue_librarian astutely mentions. We will see - perhaps this is indeed more posturing and a way to generate revenue. Who knows at this point? Still, I shudder to think of a day when mere rumors about the passing of government leaders are blocked and censored online [China, do you read this? You are making a huge mistake...]

07-08-2011, 06:57 AM	#21
darknessangel Addict Posts: 297 Karma: 1018140 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: PRS-505, iPad	Enjoy your nazi internet! =P

07-08-2011, 03:07 PM	#22
FatDog Witless protection Agent Posts: 290 Karma: 1002898 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Los Angeles Device: Kindle	It's interesting when you learn how complex our world is... Several years ago I worked for a company that distributed Radio Commercials around the country with PC's and Modems. We wanted to back up the commercials to CD's because advertising companies often re-ran the commercials months apart. At that time - burners cost $3,000 and blank CD's were $13 apiece. Trying to save money I was hunting around to find cheaper prices. When I was talking to one distributor and asked how come these were so expensive he told me that every blank Audio Cassette, VHS tape and blank CD had a special tax. From that $13 - nearly a full dollar went to the Motion Picture and Recording industry to offset their possible losses from piracy. If you have ever bought blank media - you have already paid a fee to the industry in case you pirate. If you ever used to buy a LOT of VHS tapes to time-shift TV shows or CD/DVD to backup your data - you have already paid for the crime. I am against Piracy. The people who create music, movies and stories deserve payment if we enjoy their work. But the middle-men, the Studios and Labels have gotten money for years off of blank media sales sanctioned by the government. So you've been taxed - let your conscious be your guide.

07-08-2011, 03:40 PM	#24
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	Pardon me for sounding like a conspiracy theory nut, but it sounds to me like and excuse for ISPs the throttle bandwidth whilst pointing the finger of blame on the dastardly consumers!

07-08-2011, 04:37 PM	#27
kennyc The Dank Side of the Moon Posts: 35,930 Karma: 119747553 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denver, CO Device: Kindle2 & PW, Onyx Boox Go6	just one more example of who really runs the country.....

07-08-2011, 04:50 PM	#28
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	One of the problems is that how are they able to effectively track who does what. I've been with Charter for just about 4 months now, and I do very little downloading of anything anymore (I've stopped using iTunes, and stuff like that). Most of what I use my net connection for at home is streaming netflix, or a little websurfing. About 2 months ago, I get a letter from charter, accusing me of downloading several episodes of Boardwalk Empire, which I didn't do. I've never even seen the show, and really have no interest in it. I really have no defense against it, since how can you prove you didn't do something, especially when at the time I didn't even have my computer set up at my apartment at the time they claimed it happened (I had just moved). It is pretty much my word verses theirs.

07-08-2011, 05:24 PM	#30
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	In my case, the letter stated that I downloaded the shows basically within 24 hours of becoming a customer, when I didn't have my computer at my apartment for another 2 weeks after that date. When Charter enabled my service, I only had my Slim PS3 and my one TV. If they can show how I was using bit torrent on a bone stock PS3, and nothing else, I'd love to see that trick. If I am at the mercy of my ISP, then I am SOL. In my case, I've had 8 outages in the 4 months I've been with charter, 7 of them for 12 or more hours, they've tried altering my plan without my permission (to charge me more than the rate initially agreed to) by claiming that the plan I originally signed up for wasn't a valid offer (note that this was like a week or so after I already had their service), they attempted to charge me for a service visit when they had to go and fix their equipment (a filter in the junction box that feeds the signal to my apartment building had blown), plus numerous other issues (like giving me the incorrect type of modem originally). My ISP is inept, and if I can't rely on them to offer consistant service, there is no way I can rely on them to make sure they have the right person when punishing for pirating (and as I've said, they've fingered me for it already, when it wasn't me).