School text books - Page 3

Namekuseijin · 07-01-2011, 08:25 AM

Hmm, I can see now a possible major issue with etextbooks: "Open up in page 42..."

jackastor · 07-01-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

Anyone try to write a book review or some other paper using ebooks? Or keep up in class with people flipping back and forth? It's pretty tough. I had a couple of ebooks last year for my history classes. I'm not sure I'd recommend it. It's slower.

If you had everyone on ebooks on the same kind of device, that MIGHT help as far as the in-class experience. At least epubs have page numbers.

For use in class, a paper book that you can quicky flip around and look for stuff is a lot more useful.

If we finally got an e-ink device with a pen that you could take notes in the book and you could take notes on...it might be a more viable choice.

These concerns are all easily overcome. Remember this is relatively new techonology and there are devices out there that use eink tech that push the limits and will certainly suprise you . For instance a felxible screen that is currently in develop ment for the paper cell phone.
I think in the scheme of things if we want this to happen it will and right now tech is leaping by light years.

regards

jack

anamardoll · 07-01-2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMonkey

Anyone try to write a book review or some other paper using ebooks? Or keep up in class with people flipping back and forth? It's pretty tough. I had a couple of ebooks last year for my history classes. I'm not sure I'd recommend it. It's slower.

What?

I'm not sure I understand this. I'm a hobbyist reviewer who writes reviews on everything I read. Reviewing eBooks is not essentially harder or different from reviewing paper books. Indeed, it's much easier because if you want to quote from the source, you can just copy-paste instead of typing it all in. Very convenient.

Depending on the reading device, keeping up with flipping around is just as easy if not faster on eBooks -- eBooks have a SEARCH function. God, what I would have given for that in college....... *wistful*

Hellmark · 07-01-2011, 04:44 PM

I use ebooks when I can, but for some classes, the ebook options are horrible. I had an accounting class last semester, and the ebook was just a bit less than the paper book, was only accessable through a webpage, and you could only access it for six months. Now, due to changes at the school, having to go through another class that uses the same book, so have to buy it again for the very next semester. Many textbooks are this way.

Hellmark · 07-01-2011, 04:46 PM

Most classes require AMA style parenthetical citations, where you state the page number. This is where it gets tricky with eBooks.

anamardoll · 07-01-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hellmark

Most classes require AMA style parenthetical citations, where you state the page number. This is where it gets tricky with eBooks.

True, but seems like that could be easily enough solved if you say what reader you used. I'd use ADE numbers for sites, myself. Well, I think it would be pretty easy, anyway.

I suppose it'd hinge on whether or not the teacher wanted to be a jerk about it.

CazMar · 07-01-2011, 08:30 PM

I think a lot of the problems raised about ebook usage could be easily fixed:

Size - get publishers to use a smaller page size to fit ebooks. I do this when I copy texts for reading.
page numbers - just add them, it doesn't require new technology
annotation - I never write on my p books, but many devices have annotation

For the last 2 years at university I used a netbook and a Kobo, all carried in one convenient satchel. The new Asus Transformer sounds even better, with its detachable keyboard.
These devices would be too expensive and fragile for young children, but for age 16 and over they would save a lot of book-lugging.

Jeff Rivera · 07-01-2011, 11:06 PM

The biggest problem I see with this is the page numbers, although that could be fixed if they were seriously considering using the text books in class.

Tome Keeper · 07-02-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CazMar

These devices would be too expensive and fragile for young children, but for age 16 and over they would save a lot of book-lugging.

physics · 07-02-2011, 12:26 PM

So as a grad student, I suppose I have a bit of an inside perspective on this. The first is that ebook support needs to get much better than it is now. Highlighting, note-taking, page numbers, fast navigation, etc. all need to be improved. Navigation is more than just page numbers. If I'm reading "and so using equation 3.14 we can find ... (eq 7.69)", I need to be able to flip back to equation 3.14 quickly. It's amazing how quickly you can thumb through pages in a physical book, as compared to an ereader.

Secondly, none of the formats out there support equations well, which leaves those of us in the sciences and mathematics out in the cold when it comes to etextbooks. I kind of find this surprising because by the time you throw in a calculus textbook, an intro physics textbook, and maybe a chemistry book for good measure, you're lugging around maybe 30+ pounds of weight. I'd think that science majors would be the first to flock to etextbooks to save our poor backs!!!

Finally, you'd need to support having additional books and papers open. I come up against this all the time in my research and working graduate level problem sets. I'm working through adapting a derivation in a paper on such-and-such for my own research, and they use an equation from diffusion theory that I'm not familiar with. Now I want to have that book open and flip back and forth between it and the paper. Oh, and my particles are charged, so I need my electromagnetism book open so I can see how to adapt the equations for a conserved charge...pretty soon the navigation to open a book, go back to this book, go to the paper becomes a pain.

And then of course there's the issue of greedy publishers. My graduate level textbooks becomes references I'll use for the next thirty years or so- there's no way I'm getting an ebook that expires in 6 months!

So, at least without these things fixed, I don't see etextbooks taking off. And I don't see today's academic publishers fixing them. I'd like to see them take off. I do find having e-textbooks (scanned from paper books that I've purchased) to be useful- because I can't have two copies of every books- one at home and one in my office- and the book I need is always in the wrong place. And it's useful when I'm sitting down to read through a section or paper that I don't need too much else for. But quite often I still find myself returning to the paper books.

ebusinesstutor · 07-02-2011, 02:04 PM

I like the idea of moving to etextbooks. More portable.

I would like to see the open source textbook initiatives being supported. Many school districts where I live are constantly being cut back on funding, so the ability to use open source text books would be a great savings.

I also support the ereader being an inexpensive android tablet. This would allow for educational apps, quizzes and Internet resource web sites to be accessed as well.

CazMar · 07-02-2011, 08:28 PM

I won't requote all of Physics' response - there are some very good points here. Maths and science textbooks don't always work well on digital devices. Also some languages are a problem unless the book is in PDF format, mainly because of lack of support for non-Latin alphabets. I know there is probably an easy way of doing Arabic or Russian in HTML, but not without doing some serious changes on my keyboard!
OK book publishers & ereader manufacturers - if you read these forums, get moving on sorting out these problems. There could be a lot of money in being the first to make digital textbooks a better option.

paola · 07-03-2011, 04:36 AM

the problem with mathematical notation and formulas isn't just a publishers' issue (some issues are reviewed here): at the moment there is no standard for mathematical notation in EPUB (yet). EPUB3 should be implementing MathML, but even if this finally happens, we'll need ebook reader manufacturers to catch up and enable the devices to "read" such standards. Of course, this si not a problem if you read on a laptop, as MathML can be easily read - not so, unfortunately, on e-ink devices.

Rich_D · 07-03-2011, 09:32 AM

I'm working on an online degree through my community college and (eventually) state university. For me e-textbooks are great. I use the online options which allow me to access my texts from my home and work computers. Taking my time into consideration, it is just as cost effective as physical books. I rarely keep texts so renting the ebook saves me the hassle of reselling. I wouldn't attempt it on my e-reader but they work great with my netbook.

Jessica Lares · 07-05-2011, 06:04 PM

Why the big deal about textbook revisions? It's not like people will use the book for more than a year anyway. The next people who take the class can buy the NEW version when they take the class.

View Poll Results: Should school text books be converted to Ebooks
Yes I am 100 percent for this!	49	80.33%
No I dont think it would work!	8	13.11%
Do not care one way or the other!	4	6.56%
It's just a fad E-books and E-readers will never catch on!	0	0%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

07-01-2011, 08:30 PM	#37
CazMar Book Geek Posts: 596 Karma: 1499085 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Adelaide, Australia Device: Kobo Touch, Asus MemPad 7" tablet, Nexus 5, Asus 10" tablet	I think a lot of the problems raised about ebook usage could be easily fixed: Size - get publishers to use a smaller page size to fit ebooks. I do this when I copy texts for reading. page numbers - just add them, it doesn't require new technology annotation - I never write on my p books, but many devices have annotation For the last 2 years at university I used a netbook and a Kobo, all carried in one convenient satchel. The new Asus Transformer sounds even better, with its detachable keyboard. These devices would be too expensive and fragile for young children, but for age 16 and over they would save a lot of book-lugging.

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07-01-2011, 08:25 AM	#31
Namekuseijin affordable chipmunk Posts: 1,290 Karma: 9863855 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brazil Device: Sony XPeria ZL, Kindle Paperwhite	Hmm, I can see now a possible major issue with etextbooks: "Open up in page 42..."

07-01-2011, 04:44 PM	#34
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	I use ebooks when I can, but for some classes, the ebook options are horrible. I had an accounting class last semester, and the ebook was just a bit less than the paper book, was only accessable through a webpage, and you could only access it for six months. Now, due to changes at the school, having to go through another class that uses the same book, so have to buy it again for the very next semester. Many textbooks are this way.

07-01-2011, 04:46 PM	#35
Hellmark Wizard Posts: 2,592 Karma: 4290425 Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Foristell, Missouri, USA Device: Nokia N800, PRS-505, Nook STR Glowlight, Kindle 3, Kobo Libra 2	Most classes require AMA style parenthetical citations, where you state the page number. This is where it gets tricky with eBooks.

07-01-2011, 11:06 PM	#38
Jeff Rivera Member Posts: 12 Karma: 10 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: none	The biggest problem I see with this is the page numbers, although that could be fixed if they were seriously considering using the text books in class.

07-02-2011, 12:26 PM	#40
physics Enthusiast Posts: 41 Karma: 729 Join Date: Dec 2010 Device: Kindle DX	So as a grad student, I suppose I have a bit of an inside perspective on this. The first is that ebook support needs to get much better than it is now. Highlighting, note-taking, page numbers, fast navigation, etc. all need to be improved. Navigation is more than just page numbers. If I'm reading "and so using equation 3.14 we can find ... (eq 7.69)", I need to be able to flip back to equation 3.14 quickly. It's amazing how quickly you can thumb through pages in a physical book, as compared to an ereader. Secondly, none of the formats out there support equations well, which leaves those of us in the sciences and mathematics out in the cold when it comes to etextbooks. I kind of find this surprising because by the time you throw in a calculus textbook, an intro physics textbook, and maybe a chemistry book for good measure, you're lugging around maybe 30+ pounds of weight. I'd think that science majors would be the first to flock to etextbooks to save our poor backs!!! Finally, you'd need to support having additional books and papers open. I come up against this all the time in my research and working graduate level problem sets. I'm working through adapting a derivation in a paper on such-and-such for my own research, and they use an equation from diffusion theory that I'm not familiar with. Now I want to have that book open and flip back and forth between it and the paper. Oh, and my particles are charged, so I need my electromagnetism book open so I can see how to adapt the equations for a conserved charge...pretty soon the navigation to open a book, go back to this book, go to the paper becomes a pain. And then of course there's the issue of greedy publishers. My graduate level textbooks becomes references I'll use for the next thirty years or so- there's no way I'm getting an ebook that expires in 6 months! So, at least without these things fixed, I don't see etextbooks taking off. And I don't see today's academic publishers fixing them. I'd like to see them take off. I do find having e-textbooks (scanned from paper books that I've purchased) to be useful- because I can't have two copies of every books- one at home and one in my office- and the book I need is always in the wrong place. And it's useful when I'm sitting down to read through a section or paper that I don't need too much else for. But quite often I still find myself returning to the paper books.

07-02-2011, 02:04 PM	#41
ebusinesstutor Star Gawker Posts: 526 Karma: 6944314 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Spruce Grove, AB Canada Device: Kindle Paperwhite	I like the idea of moving to etextbooks. More portable. I would like to see the open source textbook initiatives being supported. Many school districts where I live are constantly being cut back on funding, so the ability to use open source text books would be a great savings. I also support the ereader being an inexpensive android tablet. This would allow for educational apps, quizzes and Internet resource web sites to be accessed as well.

07-02-2011, 08:28 PM	#42
CazMar Book Geek Posts: 596 Karma: 1499085 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Adelaide, Australia Device: Kobo Touch, Asus MemPad 7" tablet, Nexus 5, Asus 10" tablet	I won't requote all of Physics' response - there are some very good points here. Maths and science textbooks don't always work well on digital devices. Also some languages are a problem unless the book is in PDF format, mainly because of lack of support for non-Latin alphabets. I know there is probably an easy way of doing Arabic or Russian in HTML, but not without doing some serious changes on my keyboard! OK book publishers & ereader manufacturers - if you read these forums, get moving on sorting out these problems. There could be a lot of money in being the first to make digital textbooks a better option.

07-03-2011, 04:36 AM	#43
paola Wizard Posts: 2,840 Karma: 5843878 Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: UK Device: Pocketbook Pro 903, (beloved Pocketbook 360 RIP), Kobo Mini, Kobo Aura	the problem with mathematical notation and formulas isn't just a publishers' issue (some issues are reviewed here): at the moment there is no standard for mathematical notation in EPUB (yet). EPUB3 should be implementing MathML, but even if this finally happens, we'll need ebook reader manufacturers to catch up and enable the devices to "read" such standards. Of course, this si not a problem if you read on a laptop, as MathML can be easily read - not so, unfortunately, on e-ink devices.

07-03-2011, 09:32 AM	#44
Rich_D Fanatic Posts: 581 Karma: 1314896 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA Device: Android phone, Kobo Glo HD, nook ST with Glo (backup)	I'm working on an online degree through my community college and (eventually) state university. For me e-textbooks are great. I use the online options which allow me to access my texts from my home and work computers. Taking my time into consideration, it is just as cost effective as physical books. I rarely keep texts so renting the ebook saves me the hassle of reselling. I wouldn't attempt it on my e-reader but they work great with my netbook.

07-05-2011, 06:04 PM	#45
Jessica Lares Wizard Posts: 2,240 Karma: 5759170 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Near Dallas, Texas, USA Device: iPad Mini, iPod Touch (5th gen)	Why the big deal about textbook revisions? It's not like people will use the book for more than a year anyway. The next people who take the class can buy the NEW version when they take the class.