Piracy vs Bookstores

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You are describing the operation of the "criminal mind", Jon. What an HONEST person would do is say "OK, book 3 is available as an eBook; I'll buy 1 and 2 as paperbacks".

Well it's one reason why eBooks don't have the acceptance they should. The publishers cannot do it so lackluster and expect eBooks to really take off. The average person won't put up with that sort of thing.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

You are describing the operation of the "criminal mind", Jon. What an HONEST person would do is say "OK, book 3 is available as an eBook; I'll buy 1 and 2 as paperbacks".

What an honest person might well do is say forget this series/author and find some other author's work to purchase. That's what I would do and have done.

[zelda_pinwheel]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Well it's one reason why eBooks don't have the acceptance they should. The publishers cannot do it so lackluster and expect eBooks to really take off. The average person won't put up with that sort of thing.

i recently was on the Diesel Books site. i wanted to try Ian Rankin, because i have heard good reviews about his Inspector Rebus series. however, of the 17 books in this series, the earliest one i could buy was number 13. so instead i will go to the library, even though there they will be in french.

granted, in this case i'm doing nothing dishonest, however it is still a lost sale (and potentially 17 lost sales, or more) from the publisher's point of view, and through their own fault, because they did not bother to make the series available from the beginning. i was completely ready to buy the book, and if i liked the first one i would have bought the rest of the series as well.

so i also can understand the point JSWolf is making.

[kaas]

Originally Posted by rhadin

What an honest person might well do is say forget this series/author and find some other author's work to purchase. That's what I would do and have done.

Harry,
I would have to side with JSwolf on this one. While I would never pay for pirated goods, I would not think twice about buying the pbooks and then downloading the ebooks via darknet. I think that following all rules blindly is stupid and can be dangerous (see the third Reich) and everybody should use his/ her own sense of morality -as long as you don't harm others. If you are poor and can not afford books and also don't have access to a library but can download ebooks in a school/ university/ whatever, why shouldn't you? Now if you have the money but still don't pay, that is wrong in my opinion.
When I was a student I could not afford books and thus pirated them. Now I work and can afford them. Quite a few of the books I pirated earlier, I have bought by now and gave away as gifts...

Don't want to start a flame war, just my 2 cents

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by rhadin

What an honest person might well do is say forget this series/author and find some other author's work to purchase. That's what I would do and have done.

That too is a very principled approach. I applaud that.

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by kaas

If you are poor and can not afford books and also don't have access to a library but can download ebooks in a school/ university/ whatever, why shouldn't you?

Okay, but don't complain if a poor robber mugs you or a poor burglar steals from your home. The fact that he is poor makes his violation of your rights okay according to your logic.

[kaas]

Originally Posted by rationalbiker

Okay, but don't complain if a poor robber mugs you or a poor burglar steals from your home. The fact that he is poor makes his violation of your rights okay according to your logic.

Not so, there is a difference. When I get mugged or my heirlooms (posessions, etc.) stolen, I loose material worth and probably receive a nasty shock. When copying an ebook, you (if at all) "steal" a copy, not the original. Now, as I already said, this is okay for me in a few instances, only.
Where is the difference (for the author) whether you copy a book and don't pay him or ignore it completely. In both circumstances the author receives nothing.

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by kaas

Where is the difference (for the author) whether you copy a book and don't pay him or ignore it completely. In both circumstances the author receives nothing.

The similarity is that you are violating the author's rights, just as the robber or the burglar violates your. In one circumstance you do not violate the author's rights and in the other you do. In one circumstance you do not contribute to the overall acceptance and apathy of theft from the author and in the other you do. In one case you are not taking the unearned or undeserved by force and in the other case you are.

The conceptual difference you fail to consider is that you don't have a right to determine whether or not the author would or wouldn't lose something by your theft. You don't have a right to take which does not belong to you, that you which you haven't earned or obtained permission from the rightful owner to possess.

What's worse is you don't seem to even feel any shame by being a leech off the life of another person. You think a low income level gives you some 'special' license over the work and effort of other men. Your behavior is parasitic in nature, not that of a man who takes pride in making his life his own, a man who trades voluntarily with other men for MUTUAL benefit of both, and a man who can be proud of himself for doing so. I tend to think this means you have pretty low self-esteem knowing you can't earn your own life based on your own work, value and effort. While I have contempt for you, I almost equally feel sorry for you that this escapes you. You trash the concept of justice with this behavior, the idea of treating other men as the deserved to be treated rather than treated other men as means to your own ends, as slaves to your 'need' or whim.

[Nate the great]

@rationalbiker

Please stop insulting the other members of this forum.

[rationalbiker]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

@rationalbiker

Please stop insulting the other members of this forum.

I'll do better. I won't participate on this forum anymore.

Take care.

[RWood]

Originally Posted by rationalbiker

I'll do better. I won't participate on this forum anymore.

Take care.

I am sorry to hear that you will not be participating in this forum in the future. I do ask you to reconsider.

For the most part MobileRead is a unique place on the web in that we don't shout, we don't attack other members, and we play it straight. There are a lot of good people here. Your post count and karma rankings say that people like what you have done in the past.

[Patricia]

I too hope that you will reconsider, Rationalbiker.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by zelda_pinwheel

i recently was on the Diesel Books site. i wanted to try Ian Rankin, because i have heard good reviews about his Inspector Rebus series. however, of the 17 books in this series, the earliest one i could buy was number 13. so instead i will go to the library, even though there they will be in french.

granted, in this case i'm doing nothing dishonest, however it is still a lost sale (and potentially 17 lost sales, or more) from the publisher's point of view, and through their own fault, because they did not bother to make the series available from the beginning. i was completely ready to buy the book, and if i liked the first one i would have bought the rest of the series as well.

so i also can understand the point JSWolf is making.

There is someone in another thread looking for the L. E. Modesitt Recluse series in eBook form. The only ones I could find were 12 & 13 in BBeB format and 14 in MS Reader & the 14th in Mobipocket format from BooksOnBoard and Fictionwise. This is why some people turn to the darknet. You try to o it legal. You want to do it legal. But the publisher won't allow it. And in this case, I don't have a problem if you purchase the pBook editions and then go to the darknet to get the eBook versions. since there is no legal eBook. But at least by purchasing the pBooks, you do give the author his due. True it's not legal, but morally I don't mind. Now if you had the pBook version and there was an eBook version, going to the darknet to get the eBook is wrong.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There is someone in another thread looking for the L. E. Modesitt Recluse series in eBook form. The only ones I could find were 12 & 13 in BBeB format and 14 in MS Reader & the 14th in Mobipocket format from BooksOnBoard and Fictionwise. This is why some people turn to the darknet. You try to o it legal. You want to do it legal. But the publisher won't allow it.

The Modesitt Recluse series is a good example. In this instance both the publisher and the author can lose out because the only way to read the entire series is to either purchase paperback editions or purchase used hardbound copies and the used copies are often less expensive than the paperback versions. If one goes the used route, then neither the publisher nor the author receive anything -- yet this is a perfectly legal and legitimate route to take, especially if you are a collector.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by rhadin

The Modesitt Recluse series is a good example. In this instance both the publisher and the author can lose out because the only way to read the entire series is to either purchase paperback editions or purchase used hardbound copies and the used copies are often less expensive than the paperback versions. If one goes the used route, then neither the publisher nor the author receive anything -- yet this is a perfectly legal and legitimate route to take, especially if you are a collector.

If someone was to recommend the Recluse series to me to read and I decided to give it a go, I'd end up not reading it as I don't want to add 11 more paperbacks to my collection at the moment. Granted, I could probably get them from the library. But could I get paperbacks and not hardbacks? I cannot say. I really don't want to have to tote around a bunch of hardcover books. I'd be ok if they were paperback to hall one at a time around.