Best $200 or less e-ink with epub + pdf + expansion please

[sedition]

Thanks for all the great responses.

Lots to think about.

In my list of options, I mentioned that it would be nice to have a browser and mp3 support but it really isn't necessary.

If I have to reconstruct my list of priorities it would be:

#1 Reading experience: I just turned 40, I'm going to have to upgrade my glasses, possibly with a reading prescription, so my vision isn't getting any better. I also study Chinese which is really bad for your eyesight. I need an e-reader that is easy-on-the-eyes. I keep reading about 'flashing' with the Nook and other weird issues. One e-reader that I thought would be cool because of its very open features, the jet-book, uses an LCD screen which isn't perhaps as easy on the eyes as E-Ink. So, I'd like E-ink, lots of font enlargement options and nothing that is going to cause eye strain.

#2 Formats: I know that I can use Calibre to re-format anything into just about anything but I really like the idea of being able to read EPUB since lots of libraries use this format. From what I know, this is one of the most popular 'open formats' so I kind of like the idea of supporting a device that uses this.

#3 Pricing: Kindle, Kobo and the Nook (non-colour) are all around the same price range. The sony products are nice (solid feel) but are just too expensive for what you get IMO. Also, and surprisingly, they are not well supported here in Taiwan. In fact, really no e-readers are well supported in Taiwan. I just went to the largest book store in Taipei on the weekend -ESLITE- and are no e-readers anywhere. I imagine this is largely because there isn't anything that renders Chinese Characters that well at the moment and most publishers are not releasing e-books in Chinese just yet. As for what e-readers in Taiwan I do see, most of them are Kindles. I've been told that Kindle can represent Chinese characters but I have not seen it do so yet. Also, Amazon now ships directly to Taiwan whereas, a year or so ago, they didn't.

#4 Utility: The reader should be lightweight and portable and all that. If it doesn't have a replaceable battery, well, that's just the way it is. I LOATH the idea of owning a product where you cannot replace the battery which has kept me away from the Iphone and Ipad but with a price point of $150 what can I expect.

It seems like perhaps the KOBO is the way to go.

Its readily available in Canada and if it pooches out, I can send it to my folks and they can have it repaired.

I'm intregued by some new Nooks using a Linux OS whereby new aps may be developed but in the end, but if memory serves, the company that was developing the open, linux driven e-reader a few years ago went bankrupt. Besides, I really don't need so many aps, I'll be too busy reading

[delphin]

Originally Posted by jocampo

What a useless post!

Sorry you thought so, but no one should buy a Kindle expecting a highly sophisticated, polished, well thought out product.

Aside from simple-stupid page-forward, page-back reading, I found nearly every element of the Kindle's interface to be poorly implemented and awkward (even given the limitations of it's non-touch-screen design.)

You can't even set the clock without web-access, not because the Kindle can't keep time without contacting a web server, it can, but because the Kindle STUPIDLY hides this menu on a setup screen that is not accessible until the device is registered. There is no real technical reason that this limitation should exist - it shouldn't be there . . . It just is.

Between the features that are so poorly implemented as to be barely usable, like the browser and MP3 player, and the totally unnecessary ridiculous "can't get there from here" navigation issues . . . Well I'm sorry, the Kindle software is just not very well written.

So I apologize, I should not have said that the Kindle could be called, "a 'mature' software design ONLY BY 1980's standards," what I should have said was that the Kindle would have been considered a POOR DESIGN EVEN BY 1980's STANDARDS.

[Ditchleyportrait]

Originally Posted by delphin

Sorry you thought so, but no one should buy a Kindle expecting a highly sophisticated, polished, well thought out product.

Aside from simple-stupid page-forward, page-back reading, I found nearly every element of the Kindle's interface to be poorly implemented and awkward (even given the limitations of it's non-touch-screen design.)

You can't even set the clock without web-access, not because the Kindle can't keep time without contacting a web server, it can, but because the Kindle STUPIDLY hides this menu on a setup screen that is not accessible until the device is registered. There is no real technical reason that this limitation should exist - it shouldn't be there . . . It just is.

Between the features that are so poorly implemented as to be barely usable, like the browser and MP3 player, and the totally unnecessary ridiculous "can't get there from here" navigation issues . . . Well I'm sorry, the Kindle software is just not very well written.

So I apologize, I should not have said that the Kindle could be called, "a 'mature' software design ONLY BY 1980's standards," what I should have said was that the Kindle would have been considered a POOR DESIGN EVEN BY 1980's STANDARDS.

i got two music albums and a single loaded up, homie. use it all the time. putting music on it is a breeze. the cloud service amazon made is nice, too, btw. the browser is perfect, as is, imo. i went without a pc for awhile and the kindle browser supplemented my e-need super.

complaining about a minor detail about the clock is really, really splitting hairs. it's incredible how intimately you know the device. did you own it for awhile?

[Ditchleyportrait]

my only *minor* complaint about the software is that you can't seem to be able to turn on the device and be in a collection. what's one extra click, though?

[delphin]

@sedition

As far as support goes, you will probably find it awkward to buy books for ANY of the top bookstores here in the U.S. or Canada from Taiwan without jumping trough some hoops (a U.S. billed pre-paid credit card and HTTP-Proxy).

On the other hand, there is an excellent regional overdrive library located in Singapore that you can easily join at no cost, that has literally thousands of EPUB titles freely available.

The Kobo does appear to be a really nice reader, and Kobo has already released some updates, so they do appear to be committed to making it competitive with the Nook and Sony.

The Kobo does support more formats out of the box, but the Nook is an Android device, so it will support virtually any format that you can find an app to read (including Amazon, if you root the Nook so you can load Amazon's free Kindle for Android App)

The Nook also has page turn buttons, where the newer Kobo Touch does not.

The reader that I use on a daily basis is a Sony PRS-650, it's reliable and, unlike the Kindle, I find it's built in software to be well thought out, and very logically organized.

On your point about devices with non-replaceable batteries, I agree 100% that companies like Apple, and most of the other Tablet makers, are being very irresponsible in creating iTrash devices designed essentially to wear out in a year or two at most, when the battery fails, and then force the user to choose between either paying more than the unit is worth to have it serviced, or junk it and buy a replacement.

I am a lot less concerned about this in the case of my Sony because -

a) With eReaders only requiring a charge cycle every week or two, the battery should last several years.

and

b) I have the Sony's service manual, and it looks like, with only a jeweler's screwdriver and other simple tools, the Sony's battery CAN be replaced.

So if you are willing to forgo MP3 playback, and web browsing (which drain the battery more quickly) the cycle life of the lithium cell in your reader should be adequate to last the life of the product.

[TimW]

Originally Posted by delphin

Sorry you thought so, but no one should buy a Kindle expecting a highly sophisticated, polished, well thought out product.

Aside from simple-stupid page-forward, page-back reading, I found nearly every element of the Kindle's interface to be poorly implemented and awkward (even given the limitations of it's non-touch-screen design.)

You can't even set the clock without web-access, not because the Kindle can't keep time without contacting a web server, it can, but because the Kindle STUPIDLY hides this menu on a setup screen that is not accessible until the device is registered. There is no real technical reason that this limitation should exist - it shouldn't be there . . . It just is.

Between the features that are so poorly implemented as to be barely usable, like the browser and MP3 player, and the totally unnecessary ridiculous "can't get there from here" navigation issues . . . Well I'm sorry, the Kindle software is just not very well written.

So I apologize, I should not have said that the Kindle could be called, "a 'mature' software design ONLY BY 1980's standards," what I should have said was that the Kindle would have been considered a POOR DESIGN EVEN BY 1980's STANDARDS.

Can't set the clock?? You're describing a K2...have you used a K3 at all? The clock can be precisely set. If you put an MP3 in the Audible folder, it has the same interface as an Audible book. It has very precise controls. The alt commands are merely shortcuts, by the way. Everything is accessible by the menus.

Edit: I just noticed your issue about having to register the device before the time could be set. My Kindle was registered before I got it out of the box so I can't attest to that point.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by TimW

Can't set the clock?? You're describing a K2...have you used a K3 at all? The clock can be precisely set. If you put an MP3 in the Audible folder, it has the same interface as an Audible book. It has very precise controls. The alt commands are merely shortcuts, by the way. Everything is accessible by the menus.

Edit: I just noticed your issue about having to register the device before the time could be set. My Kindle was registered before I got it out of the box so I can't attest to that point.

Yes, I was talking about the K3 - Until it is registered with Amazon, the time set menu is unavailable. So far as I can tell there is no reason for this, since Kindles will keep reasonably good time (plus or minus a few minutes a month) even while the WiFi is disabled. So this was just a dumb ass foul up on the part of the Kindle programmers.

On my Sony I was gratified to see how 'orthogonal' the software is in it's organization. This means that things are logically organized and that once you learn a very few basics, all the features work the same way.

Kindles user interface layout, and menu organization, made me think of a spastic monkey throwing darts at a dartboard labeled with features (in the dark).

So far as MP3 playback goes - Yes, I also knew about the K3 hack of putting your music files in your Audible folder; unfortunately, though this does let you select tracks, it has three equally unacceptable side effects -

- It clutters up your book listing with potentially hundreds of song titles.

- Forget about Shuffle Mode, Track Repeat, Album Repeat, because when playing the tracks in your book listing, the Kindle will play ONE and ONLY ONE track, THEN STOP (not one album, ONE TRACK!).

- While playing a track from the Audible folder, the Kindle 3 thinks you are listening to an audio book, so it will not let you read and listen at the same time!

Even the cheapest 10 dollar no-name mp3 player isn't this lame. In fact I have NEVER seen ANY MP3 player that worked as poorly as the Kindle does.

I know it sounds incredible that that a premier 3rd generation product from a multi billion dollar company like Amazon would be so fouled up on a simple feature like MP3 playback, but that's the way it is.

I guess this is why Kindle owners are always saying things like "When I bought my Kindle, I thought I would use the MP3 player a lot, but it turns out that I almost never do."

I'm not surprised that Kindle users find that they 'almost never' use this feature, since the Kindles 'experimental' MP3 playback is damn near USELESS.

The Sony and Nooks that include MP3 playback don't have the Kindles silly limitations. In fact, the MP3 playback feature built into my PRS-650, supports many of the advanced features that you would find on a sophisticated stand alone MP3 player, like the display of embedded album cover art tags, shuffle playback, etc.

AND YES, before someone asks again, I am talking about the Kindle 3. This is supposedly Amazon's sophisticated 3rd generation Kindle right? So what's with this 'experimental' crap?

Is Amazon selling a real product, or some developer geek's science project?

[HarryT]

Sorry that you don't like the Kindle - I think it's pretty damned good, personally, and I've used (and owned) most of the eBook readers on the market. Different things appeal to different people - if you don't like the Kindle, move on and use a reader that you do like, but accept that not everyone's tastes will be the same as yours.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry that you don't like the Kindle - I think it's pretty damned good, personally, and I've used (and owned) most of the eBook readers on the market. Different things appeal to different people - if you don't like the Kindle, move on and use a reader that you do like, but accept that not everyone's tastes will be the same as yours.

Yes Harry, I have noted that you have been one of the Kindle's staunchest supporters and defenders here on MobileRead.

There are a few things that I do like about the Kindle -

- The Default Font and Screen Contrast are very good, so text is clear and sharp.

- The Kindle 3 has really good battery life.

- Kindles integration to the Kindle Store on Amazon is also well handled.

I agree that there are definitely some folks who are pretty happy with their Kindles.

In fact, it's pretty hard to miss, especially when I see one of these "What should I buy?" threads, and no matter what the original poster's requirements, someone tries to shove a Kindle down his throat.

"I'd like to find a nice eInk reader with a touch screen like my iPad" -> "You need a Kindle"

"But the Kindles not a touch screen, is it?" -> "Doesn't matter, just buy the Kindle"

"I'm pretty sure that I do want that touch screen" -> "No you don't, buy the Kindle"

"I need to read PDFs?" - > "You need a Kindle"

"how about magazines . . ." -> "You need a Kindle"

"I'd like a eReader to use in Pago-Pago" -> "You need a Kindle"

"I've seen the Kindle, it sucks I don't want one, what else . . ." -> "No it doesn't; you need a Kindle"

"No really I don't" -> "Yes you do"

It gets to be like watching bad re-run of "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" with Kindles in the staring role instead of large green pods.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by delphin

In fact, it's pretty hard to miss, especially when I see one of these "What should I buy?" threads, and no matter what the original poster's requirements, someone tries to shove a Kindle down his throat.

That is not true.

If a lot of people here recommend it as a good device is because it's really a good device. It is not perfect though, no device is really perfect, as a matter of fact, some users here own 2 or more in order to combine features.

Move one man! If you like your Sony and would like to show its nice features, go ahead please, instead of keep criticizing others preferences. That's not really helpful to the OP , at all.

Thousand of people own and enjoy the Kindle as an ereader. It should be pretty damm awful when so many own it and talk good about it! I'll leave you with that thought.

[Latinandgreek]

The Kindle is a nice device and it does have a lot of great features to offer, but the OP had specifically asked for .epub and expansion which the Kindle does not offer, as well as good PDF support, which is not the Kindle's forte, either.

[ProfCrash]

The OP said that they have not ruled out a Kindle in the first post but had mainly seen Kindles and wanted to know about other e-readers. Then listed a bunch of features that are found mainly on a Kindle, probably because that is what he knows.

My first post pointed out that he would have format issues on any device and clarified EPub vs Mobi. My second response focused on the features that he asked about. My third post suggested a Sony because it was internationally supported. One person suggested a Kindle. Two others suggested a Sony. Then some how the thread got off track with Kindle bashing.

There has not been a ton of Kindle promotion in this thread. delphin has a hard on regarding Amazon and Kindle is happily going off when he really doesn't need to.

[Prestidigitweeze]

I would never accuse the esteemed ProfCrash of stacking our deck o' eReaders in the Kindle's favor. However, certain conclusions about other readers' features need to be addressed (due, I think, entirely to the Professor's admitted unfamiliarity).

I own both a Kindle 3 and a PRS-950, and when it's time to read PDFs, you couldn't bribe me to use my K3. In fact, for everything other than (i) mobi and (ii) testing books and magazines as eBooks for the Kindle, I prefer the 950.

The Sony is leagues better at handling library PDFs and the size of the screen is part of it. The other part is the ability to resize text and still have it be readable. The 950's reflow isn't perfect, as it does result in odd page breaks, but it's infinitely more readable than the Kindle's version of that. I also seem to be one of the few people who can't stand the Kindle's pedestrian fonts after using the 950 (though I do much prefer the Kindle's flexibility in allowing you to change fonts). Yes, they're very readable, and that's good, but they're not aesthetic in the sense of a vintage edition of Edwardian poetry. The organization of collections is also far better on the Sony.

But while the sound quality and manipulation of audio files on the Sony is preferable, let's get something straight: Anyone who wants to play music on their reader is (1) cutting their battery life to a tenth and (2) slowing down other activities on their reader to the point of madness. I say use your smartphone for audio and keep your reader purposed for reading and occasional purchases. Nothing wrong with the Kindle vs. the Sony in that regard.

I don't hate the Kindle or its keyboard at all; I find it to be a fetching device. But after spending time with the 950, I have to admit it's always hard to return to my K3 (though I do -- for business reasons -- nearly every day).

I should also mention I have a later model of 950 than Delphin does his 650 and I haven't noticed any difference in screen quality between my 950 and my K3. If anything, the 950's screen seems slightly less beige and more crisp, but the difference is so infinitesimal that I suspect my subjectivity is creating shades of nuance that might not even be real.

One important perk in favor of the Kindle: Accessories. Unless you get in on the discontinued K2 Platform Jacket sale on M-Edge, you'll find it extremely difficult to buy a cheap and satisfactory cover for the 950 -- and even on M-Edge the choice is now limited to red leather (I myself own jackets in brown and jade).

Whereas with the Kindle, your options for cases, lights, screen protectors and even waterproof options are limitless. It's like owning an Apple product in that respect.

[ProfCrash]

Agreed on PDF's. I have recommended the Sony 950 to many a person for that reason alone. And I fail to understand why any one uses their e-reader to listen to music or even audio books. I can fit more on my IPod, it is easier to control, and much smaller.

I never have a problem when someone corrects a mistype on my part. It is how I learn.

I think the conversation is much healthier when it is civil. As in, "You made a mistake here, the Sony 950 has a browser that works with WiFI" as opposed to "You are a Kindle Fan Boi who is pushing the Kindle. The Sony 950 has a browser that works with WiFi you idiot".

I find that most posters looking for help respond better to people posting why they like a device without the bashing. It is easier to read and not all that scary.

[Prestidigitweeze]

I'd love to see the Mobileread forums focus on civilility all around, ProfCrash. I agree with you on that.

However, I do think there's a difference between posters who are deliberately hurtful and caustic and certain well-meaning souls who need to be reminded not to sacrifice tact for truth.

Tact and honesty, Laddies and Gentlefemmes. We truly can have both.