Sony or Nook Touch

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by ST-One

Das Lesen in Papierbuechern scheint ja fuer dich eine unheimliche Qual gewesen zu sein.

What, besides words on a page, could you possibly need for the actual reading "experience"?

Annotation export,
advanced page syncing between other Nook devices,
metadata/tag pull from Calibre to organize one's library,
full support for PDF (and other) formats,
Wikipedia lookup for confusing terms/concepts/historical figures while reading,
landscape reading for poetry and other formats where line breaks hurt the reading flow
proper cover extraction from Calibre so that books are covered properly....

I could probably think of a few other things...

On the other hand, I hear it can sync with one's Twitter feed!

[delphin]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Annotation export,
advanced page syncing between other Nook devices,

The Sony does NOT do 'Annotation export', because the whole concept of the word 'annotation' refers to creating an 'annotated' document in which we can see our highlightlng, markups, and annotation text, in the context of the fully marked up document.

Here's what the Sony does do -

When you draw a circle around a paragraph and make a note like 'too wordy' the Sony converts your hand drawn circle into a stupid little geeky linux graphic figure and dilgently hides in it's stupid little geeky linux innards, and converts your text note into an equally geeky text file and hides that away as well.

The good news is - when you open the document on the reader, with luck, it will usually find all that crap and overlay it onto the original document, so you can see your 'annotations'.

The bad news is - when you try to export your so-called 'annotations' from the reader library, you lose the graphics entirely, as well as all the original document text that was associated with them, and get only the cryptic (and now ALMOST USELESS) out of context text note 'too wordy'.

What was 'too wordy'?

Oh, and don't try to export more than a hundred characters per note (gee, and you thought Twitter's stupid 140 charaacter limit was bad). Oh, and don't do too many highlights or notes, unless you want your reader to really slooooooooooow down.

Yah, that's really useful. I can see why you would call it PERFECT. As long that is, as your definition of 'perfect' includes wasting hours of your time marking up a document, and ending up with something that is NEARLY USELESS.

Now let's compare that to marking up a PDF document loaded into RepliGo on a Nook Color shall we?

RepliGo let's you add margin notes, and hand drawn annotations - AND THEN LET'S YOU SAVE THEM DIRECTLY INTO THE PDF.

This PDF can then be emailed to ANYONE who is free to open it with any PDF application that supports notes and see your annotations (with Acrobat reader for example).

Sure, there are a few bugs in some of the Android apps, RepliGo included, but that's because when you do about 50 times as much, you are bound to have a few more bugs, but unlike the Sony, most Android apps get regular bug fixes and updates.

I fully expect my Sony to get another update to improve the PDF handling, right around the time the Devil starts shopping for ice skates.

The key difference that I am getting at is simply this -

Not only has B&N been more responsive than Sony in doing updates to fix bugs, and to add features requested by users, but because the new Nooks, like the Nook Color and Nook Touch, are Android based, you aren't limited to waiting for B&N to fix something, because these devices can run Android Apps, so you can often find an alternative that will give you the features that you want.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by delphin

(Endless repetitions of the word stupid)

Are you answering anamardoll's polite and comparatively reasonable post or taunting her Sony Reader like a character from Monty Python? You seem rather gleefully invested at the moment, whereas before you were scoring a few points.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by ST-One

Das Lesen in Papierbuechern scheint ja fuer dich eine unheimliche Qual gewesen zu sein.

What, besides words on a page, could you possibly need for the actual reading "experience"?

Landscape ?

[Latinandgreek]

Originally Posted by ST-One

Das Lesen in Papierbuechern scheint ja fuer dich eine unheimliche Qual gewesen zu sein.

What, besides words on a page, could you possibly need for the actual reading "experience"?

When I bought my first ebook reader, I really didn't know what to expect with it and really only wanted something that I could read with. After using it for a while, I began to get certain "wants", such as integrated dictionaries, annotation and highlighting. It is true that I don't need any of these things for the actual reading experience, but they do enhance the experience greatly. I like to highlight when reading something that I want to come back to later, and the dictionary integration is great, especially when reading novels in a foreign language (I've used it as a stand-alone pocket dictionary in a pinch quite a few times as well, at work and such). While none of this is necessary, it is nice to have. Others have other wants, such as an internet connection to download books, etc.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by Prestidigitweeze

Are you answering anamardoll's polite and comparatively reasonable post or taunting her Sony Reader like a character from Monty Python? You seem rather gleefully invested at the moment, whereas before you were scoring a few points.

Yes the over the top sarcastic use of the word "stupid" was intended to hammer home the point that having a mark up capability that only lets you see the marked up result on the reader, and that can't export the full document with the markups intact, so that they can be seen in context, is anything but "perfect".

So YES, my use of the word 'stupid' was over-the-top, but so was describing the Sony's only passable PDF rendering, and deeply flawed 'export' feature as being "already perfect".

Sorry, if you were offended, but I have seen a half dozen posts over the last several months from disappointed Sony users who spent hours making notes and highlights, only to find that these could not be exported in useful form from Sony's software, and I would prefer that anyone who does decide to go with the Sony understand what they are buying.

Yes, the Sony's onboard PDF handling is marginally better than the Nook Touch, but it is anything but "perfect".

For example, take the much ballyhooed 'Zoom Lock', instead of simply putting a "Zoom-200%" or some such reminder down at the bottom of the screen in the status line area, and making it so that you can touch this to pop-up the zoom slider control (like the volume control works in windows), which would have left the screen clear of clutter, Sony keeps the Zoom slider on screen and in the way while you adjust the zoom.

Then, when you lock the zoom setting, Sony replaces the Zoom control with an almost equally obnoxious on screen "unlock" button that blocks out part of the first line of text (when any programmer with the brains god gave a gerbil would have handled this with a status tray icon to avoid cluttering up the screen.)


Compare this to how zooming is handled in some of the Nook Color PDF viewer Android Apps, which keep the screen totally clear of clutter, and allow you to simply use a multi-touch pinch or unpinch to zoom or shrink the screen image, while dragging the entire page around at the same time.

Of course, Sony may not have designed the IR touch screen to support multi-touch, but even so, that would mean that there are only about 100 ways to handle it better than Sony did, rather than 200.

Again, my apologies to you and anamardoll if you though my language extreme, but I don't think gushing superlatives are doing anyone any favors either, because though the PDF handling on the Sony is usable, and may be marginally better than the Nook's at present, it's still anything but perfect.

[Prestidigitweeze]

Originally Posted by delphin

Sorry, if you were offended. . . . Again, my apologies to you and anamardoll if you though my language extreme, but I don't think gushing superlatives are doing anyone any favors either. . . .

It isn't a matter of people's delicate sensibilities being offended. I'm asking whether the point you're making benefits from repetitions of words like stupid, since, to those who aren't in your head and therefore privy to what you mean, repeated pejoratives might seem to apply to the user who enjoys the feature you're trashing. Intentional or not, the inference could be that only an idiot would fail to notice the limitations you happen to be pointing out.

I've noticed that, strangely, misunderstandings seem to plague this forum no matter how well-intentioned each individual member might be. Part of it is the defensiveness of people who love the reader they own (and perhaps identify with a bit too much) and part is the emphatic manner of people who wish to express their dissatisfaction with, or be uncompromisingly objective about, those same readers (and are perhaps a bit too caustic in the name of honesty or balance).

So far, the one reader I've found useful for pdfs is the PRS-950; whether that's due to screen size alone or screen size + flexibility, I haven't yet decided. I have noticed it's quite difficult to return to my Kindle 3 after using the 950. I'll have to take both to a store that carries the Touch and A/B/C all three.

[jocampo]

I really wish eink devices, regardless of the brand, could handle PDF better. But so far tablets are the only devices that provide enough editing and viewing features without sacrificing speed or PDF portability; iPad+GoodReader is my favorite.

[Ditchleyportrait]

sony sucks. go with the nook.

[rahulm]

Originally Posted by rolof

sony sucks. go with the nook.

Well, that settles it.

[delphin]

Originally Posted by jocampo

I really wish eink devices, regardless of the brand, could handle PDF better. But so far tablets are the only devices that provide enough editing and viewing features without sacrificing speed or PDF portability; iPad+GoodReader is my favorite.

I agree, PDF handling on ALL eInk devices could be better.

I use my Sony PRS-650 ever day, and have found it overall to be a joy to use, but that's because about 99% of the time I am reading EPUBs not PDFs.

I find the PDF handling on my 650 to be good enough for that other 1%, but like other eInk devices with 5 and 6 inch screens, it could definitely stand some improvements.

So if PDFs were my main focus, I would be looking for a better solution.

I will be interested to see just how well ezPDF and RepliGo work, once they are tweaked for the new Nook Touch.

For now, I also agree that the iPad with GoodReader is a nice combo, that will easily outperform any of the current eInk PDF devices.

The android apps are getting better, and catching up pretty quickly, but I think GoodReader on the iPad is still the gold standard.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rahulm

Well, that settles it.

Well, I'm convinced by that cogent and reasoned argument!

[ST-One]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Annotation export,
advanced page syncing between other Nook devices,
metadata/tag pull from Calibre to organize one's library,
full support for PDF (and other) formats,
Wikipedia lookup for confusing terms/concepts/historical figures while reading,
landscape reading for poetry and other formats where line breaks hurt the reading flow
proper cover extraction from Calibre so that books are covered properly....

I could probably think of a few other things...

On the other hand, I hear it can sync with one's Twitter feed!

This constant need for pdf-support is beyond me.
Neither of these functions you mentioned is important to. All I personally care about is actually reading on the reader; for that I need epub-support and a good display.
That's why I switched from a K2 to the NookClassic and will now get a NookTouch (I would have bought a new Sony if it weren't so damned expensive).

[ST-One]

Originally Posted by jocampo

Landscape ?

I have never seen a use for that function when reading.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by ST-One

I have never seen a use for that function when reading.

It depends what you read. Jo a lot of computer programming books, so he needs a reader which can display long lines of code in a sensible manner.