The Danger of E-books by RMS - Page 2

tompe · 06-08-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

If you knew his views....

That might be. But the views that started this threas are not extreme. They seem like sensible opinions that I mostly agree with.

tompe · 06-08-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

for a man of such importance and influence in the software world, Stallman is incredibly luddite. He doesn't use cell phones either. Here's how he reads web pages: he runs a script that fetches the page and mails it to him. That's paranoia, not sensible reasoning. I used to veneer the guy, now it just makes me sad to think of him.

What is the paranoia?

The reading experience is probably like using Google News or any other reader of feeds. And you get a copy of what you read and might respond to which is good.

bhartman36 · 06-08-2011, 06:22 PM

I agree with what some others here have said about Stallman. He's a few years late in taking much-needed medication, apparently.

Are e-books currently restrictive? DRM'd ones are, sure. But you don't have to buy DRM'd e-books. There are plenty without DRM.

As far as Stallman's idea of paying an author based on his/her popularity: Well, duh. That's what the price of the e-book is for. The author gets a percentage of each sale, so more popular authors get more money. Seems fairly simple to me. But if you use tax dollars to pay authors, you're in for a world of hurt. Look at the brouhaha over the NEA (in the U.S., at least). People tend not to like it when you use tax money to support the arts, because some of that money inevitably goes towards supporting art they don't like.

As for the "pay only if you like it" model, that's a non-starter. Who, in their right mind, would work based on such a model over the long term? "Sure. I'll build that addition to your house. Don't worry about paying me unless you like it." Um...yeah. I don't think so. And Amazon already has a generous return policy on e-books. But the key difference is, you have to pay first. You don't just get a book and then decide if you're going to pay for it.

To sum up (at the risk of sounding repetitive to the posts before mine): Stallman is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

Namekuseijin · 06-08-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

What is the paranoia?

The reading experience is probably like using Google News or any other reader of feeds. And you get a copy of what you read and might respond to which is good.

no, it is not: he reads the actual html source, not rendered by a browser. Possibly he's afraid javascript will crash his Hurd kernel...

Namekuseijin · 06-08-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Are e-books currently restrictive? DRM'd ones are, sure. But you don't have to buy DRM'd e-books. There are plenty without DRM.

indeed. Someone should point him to gutenberg.

Actually, I'm sure he knows of that, but he's making a point about modern day book authoring.

Quote:

As for the "pay only if you like it" model, that's a non-starter. Who, in their right mind, would work based on such a model over the long term? "Sure. I'll build that addition to your house. Don't worry about paying me unless you like it."

precisely.

twowheels · 06-08-2011, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kali Yuga

If you knew his views....

Sorry, I meant his views as expressed in this article. I'm quite aware of who he is.

twowheels · 06-08-2011, 06:48 PM

Re: Pay if you liked it

Quote:

Originally Posted by Namekuseijin

precisely.

Why not? A lot of software is developed that way. Corry Doctrow seems to be succeeding that way. Some music is successfully sold that way.

Namekuseijin · 06-08-2011, 06:58 PM

Art is not supposed to just please, but also shock and punch you in the stomach. Why would anyone pay for that *after* reading it?

I've a feeling "pay if you like" would mean artists desperately trying to please their public with art devoid of merit.

software is useful, art is not.

jocampo · 06-08-2011, 07:03 PM

Interesting article but ....

Everything that you do, buy or get now, can and is being tracked anyway, mostly for marketing purposes. The whole Internet and e-commerce experience is based on database transactions (Oracle, MS-SQL, MySQL) and credit or debit cards; we cannot use cash when buying online, not cash in the strict usage of the word. I know about it, I'm a DBA ;-) ...

Paranoid about privacy? Get a P.O BOX, and pay everything cash. You can even buy a Kindle from Target or any brick store here in USA and later register with a Hotmail or Yahoo email. You can set that P.O Box as physical address. Use a proxy or connect from free wifi spots like Starbucks.

And people keep complaining about simple things like buying an ebook and losing privacy, but they are browsing Internet and using it all days! All your info. is being exposed and saved every time you use a web-server or page.

An interesting but exaggerated article ...

ApK · 06-08-2011, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speakingtohe

I am not aware of any physical bookstores that refund your money if the book is not to your liking. Please enlighten me.

Every one I've ever been to, as long as you make that decision within their return period. Even Amazon.
If they allow returns, they don't care what your reason is.

bhartman36 · 06-08-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twowheels

Why not? A lot of software is developed that way.

There was a lot of shareware developed in the 80's and 90's. It was not a successful model then. To the best of my knowledge, it's not a successful model now. That's not to say that it doesn't still get developed, but it gets developed by people who don't care whether or not they actually make money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

Corry Doctrow seems to be succeeding that way.

No offense to Corry Doctorow, but could you define "succeeding"? If I get paid one time in 10 for a product or service I provide, I don't necessarily consider that a success.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonist

Some music is successfully sold that way.

Talk to the members of Radiohead about that. If the model is so successful, why aren't they doing it again?

Don't get me wrong: I'm not against people giving away their writing for free, if they want to. I've got some free stuff on Smashwords myself. But the free stuff is meant to whet the readers' appetites for the stuff you want them to pay for. And when you want them to pay for it, you want them to pay for it, not read it and then decide if they want to pay. (Unlike software, e-books have limited repeat value. A lot of shareware is sold on the basis of, "If I don't buy it, it'll expire and I won't be able to use it again". But once you've read a book, that's usually it. You don't care if it expires after that. Thus, that part of the shareware model won't work.

bhartman36 · 06-08-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Every one I've ever been to, as long as you make that decision within their return period. Even Amazon.
If they allow returns, they don't care what your reason is.

But again, the crucial difference there is, they're returning your money. You already paid it. That's very different from reading a book without paying for it first.

jgaiser · 06-08-2011, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

There was a lot of shareware developed in the 80's and 90's. It was not a successful model then. To the best of my knowledge, it's not a successful model now. That's not to say that it doesn't still get developed, but it gets developed by people who don't care whether or not they actually make money.

Redhat would probably disagree with you. They seem to be making quite a bit of money from Open Source software (Linux). Free Software doesn't *necessarily* mean you can't make money from it.

ApK · 06-08-2011, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Redhat would probably disagree with you. They seem to be making quite a bit of money from Open Source software (Linux). Free Software doesn't *necessarily* mean you can't make money from it.

Again, I think his point is, they don't make their money by giving you the software for free then hoping you pay for it later....IIUC they have other revenue sources, like services. Redhat does not use the shareware model.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhartman36

But again, the crucial difference there is, they're returning your money. You already paid it. That's very different from reading a book without paying for it first.

I'm with you. I was replying to the person who seemed to be saying they didn't know that books could be returned for a refund.

jgaiser · 06-08-2011, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Again, I think his point is, they don't make their money by giving you the software for free then hoping you pay for it later....IIUC they have other revenue sources, like services. Redhat does not use the shareware model.

Yeah.. You're right..

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
A list of books recommended by RMS...	roger64	Reading Recommendations	0	08-01-2010 03:29 AM
Kindle in danger of becoming e-books' Betamax	Madam Broshkina	News	18	08-15-2009 11:24 PM
Seriously thoughtful eBooks: a danger to posterity?	Over	Lounge	38	04-17-2009 07:38 PM
Paper Books - a DANGER to Children!	Patricia	Lounge	53	02-13-2009 11:22 AM
Embedded Linux in danger?	JeffElkins	News	4	05-13-2008 03:29 PM

06-08-2011, 06:22 PM	#18
bhartman36 Wizard Posts: 1,323 Karma: 1515835 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: New Jersey, USA Device: Kobo Libra Colour, Kindle Paperwhite Signature Edition (2021)	I agree with what some others here have said about Stallman. He's a few years late in taking much-needed medication, apparently. Are e-books currently restrictive? DRM'd ones are, sure. But you don't have to buy DRM'd e-books. There are plenty without DRM. As far as Stallman's idea of paying an author based on his/her popularity: Well, duh. That's what the price of the e-book is for. The author gets a percentage of each sale, so more popular authors get more money. Seems fairly simple to me. But if you use tax dollars to pay authors, you're in for a world of hurt. Look at the brouhaha over the NEA (in the U.S., at least). People tend not to like it when you use tax money to support the arts, because some of that money inevitably goes towards supporting art they don't like. As for the "pay only if you like it" model, that's a non-starter. Who, in their right mind, would work based on such a model over the long term? "Sure. I'll build that addition to your house. Don't worry about paying me unless you like it." Um...yeah. I don't think so. And Amazon already has a generous return policy on e-books. But the key difference is, you have to pay first. You don't just get a book and then decide if you're going to pay for it. To sum up (at the risk of sounding repetitive to the posts before mine): Stallman is a few fries short of a Happy Meal.

06-08-2011, 06:58 PM	#23
Namekuseijin affordable chipmunk Posts: 1,290 Karma: 9863855 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Brazil Device: Sony XPeria ZL, Kindle Paperwhite	Art is not supposed to just please, but also shock and punch you in the stomach. Why would anyone pay for that after reading it? I've a feeling "pay if you like" would mean artists desperately trying to please their public with art devoid of merit. software is useful, art is not.

06-08-2011, 07:03 PM	#24
jocampo Layback feline Posts: 3,034 Karma: 6980745 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: USA Device: Oasis 2nd gen, Sony DPTS1, iPad Pro 10.5"	Interesting article but .... Everything that you do, buy or get now, can and is being tracked anyway, mostly for marketing purposes. The whole Internet and e-commerce experience is based on database transactions (Oracle, MS-SQL, MySQL) and credit or debit cards; we cannot use cash when buying online, not cash in the strict usage of the word. I know about it, I'm a DBA ;-) ... Paranoid about privacy? Get a P.O BOX, and pay everything cash. You can even buy a Kindle from Target or any brick store here in USA and later register with a Hotmail or Yahoo email. You can set that P.O Box as physical address. Use a proxy or connect from free wifi spots like Starbucks. And people keep complaining about simple things like buying an ebook and losing privacy, but they are browsing Internet and using it all days! All your info. is being exposed and saved every time you use a web-server or page. An interesting but exaggerated article ...