Where did the Entourage Edge and Pocket Edge go wrong?

I have at best mixed feelings about the apparent move to only capacitative touchscreens. I agree that they're more pleasing to the senses, but I don't think they're always more useful. I find the resistive touchscreen plus stylus to be more suitable for some tasks.

Originally Posted by alex_edge

I think this is the issue right here--the fact that Entourage didn't recognize that they couldn't--and shouldn't--go head to head with the ipad or other straight-up tablets. Some of us really don't care about playing games, or streaming netflix, or shooting video with our reading/productivity devices. The fact is, you have a certain set of expectations as a consumer, and I have a completely different set. The ipad never appealed to me, is not a product I considered buying, and does not form the baseline for what I believe a tablet-like device should do. Nor did the Kindle define ink reading for me. What got me into both the world of tablets *and* eink was the dualbook. For what it's worth, I completely disagree about the utility and preferability of eink to LCD. I will NEVER read on an LCD screen. Perhaps I am in the minority on this, and others are more than happy to do so, but I think that even as a minority there are enough people like me who feel similarly attached to eink. And there are enough academics, professionals, doctors, whatever, out there that we are a viable consumer market. Perhaps not on the scale of Apple consumers, …..

In my opinion, the Edge suffered from poor branding and bad marketing, and not from any inherent mechanical or design flaws.

I feel the same way (except I'd love an ipad--but for wholly different reasons. I can't use an ipad for my work.

Alex -

Certainly, I know lots of people that are big fans of e-ink. However, I've never seen a single study - aside from people's individual experiences - that shows "eye strain" is worse on an LCD screen. I'm actually a doctoral student (screwing around with the Pocket Edge has been a welcome distraction from my dissertation), and I've read literally THOUSANDS of pages on my ASUS T91MT. Most of my colleagues own some kind of LCD tablet, and they mostly love their devices. Nevertheless, the market will ultimately determine such issues. Right now, it's pretty clear that Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other companies have decided that consumers are fine just reading on tablets (arguably, it better reproduces the experience of reading book, because you actually flip pages rather than just push a button).

One of the biggest problems is that the LCD/e-ink screen doesn't allow multitouch gestures. On my T91MT, which was released around the same time, I can pinch/zoom into certain areas and easily adjust the paper size based on the pdf format. On the e-ink side of the Edge, you have to hit the zoom button and fiddle with things until it suits your tastes. Even at the time the Edge was originally released, it was pretty obvious that the entire market was moving toward tablets with multitouch capabilities. Most smartphones featured accelerometers that easily allowed you to switch the tablet's orientation. Most were infinitely customizable with literally thousands of different applications options available through a centralized marketplace. Without these features, the Edge was doomed to look extremely innovative at first when there were no competitors but then quickly degenerate when better options appeared in the marketplace.

Finally, I don't agree with you that the Edge is necessarily better for work applications. For starters, it doesn't come equipped with Google Calendar, G-mail, and other such apps. It doesn't come with apps specifically designed to work with the larger touchscreen. And so on. Really, the point is not that I want to play Angry Birds. I hardly EVER play games. Rather, it would be a nice perk if my tablet could play Angry Birds, watch Netflix, and be a useful productivity tool. The iPad and other such devices mostly accomplish this feat.

North -

They are better for touching but not better for inking That's certainly true.

Where did they go wrong?

Casual consumers couldn't see justification for the increased price/number of screens, because there was little unique software that integrated the two. While there was considerable developer enthusiasm for the device, little edge-specific software exists, because the company provided no support to developers. Entourage also missed the opportunities (pointed out by some here) to exploit a variety of markets where such a device would fit nicely. The management of the company and marketing effectiveness was legendary in its lameness.

At this point I wouldn't disagree that the primary purpose for the company was to allow C-types to siphon venture capital into expensive sport cars and other luxuries.

Originally Posted by kennyminot

Alex -

Certainly, I know lots of people that are big fans of e-ink. However, I've never seen a single study - aside from people's individual experiences - that shows "eye strain" is worse on an LCD screen. I'm actually a doctoral student (screwing around with the Pocket Edge has been a welcome distraction from my dissertation), and I've read literally THOUSANDS of pages on my ASUS T91MT. Most of my colleagues own some kind of LCD tablet, and they mostly love their devices. Nevertheless, the market will ultimately determine such issues. Right now, it's pretty clear that Amazon, Barnes and Noble, and other companies have decided that consumers are fine just reading on tablets (arguably, it better reproduces the experience of reading book, because you actually flip pages rather than just push a button).

One of the biggest problems is that the LCD/e-ink screen doesn't allow multitouch gestures. On my T91MT, which was released around the same time, I can pinch/zoom into certain areas and easily adjust the paper size based on the pdf format. On the e-ink side of the Edge, you have to hit the zoom button and fiddle with things until it suits your tastes. Even at the time the Edge was originally released, it was pretty obvious that the entire market was moving toward tablets with multitouch capabilities. Most smartphones featured accelerometers that easily allowed you to switch the tablet's orientation. Most were infinitely customizable with literally thousands of different applications options available through a centralized marketplace. Without these features, the Edge was doomed to look extremely innovative at first when there were no competitors but then quickly degenerate when better options appeared in the marketplace.

Finally, I don't agree with you that the Edge is necessarily better for work applications. For starters, it doesn't come equipped with Google Calendar, G-mail, and other such apps. It doesn't come with apps specifically designed to work with the larger touchscreen. And so on. Really, the point is not that I want to play Angry Birds. I hardly EVER play games. Rather, it would be a nice perk if my tablet could play Angry Birds, watch Netflix, and be a useful productivity tool. The iPad and other such devices mostly accomplish this feat.

I guess the issue of reading on LCD versus eink is a personal one. I bought a Lenovo x200 tablet PC back in 2008 and used to read/annotate all of my PDFs on there (also a doctoral student). I have now completely migrated all of that activity over to my Edge and don't even use the tablet functionality of my laptop anymore. As for multi-touch, again this is a matter of personal preference: I have a Droid phone and I can count on one hand the number of times I've used the pinch/zoom feature, or anything other than scrolling. Such a feature just doesn't matter to me. I had a similar exchange in Amazon comments about "native" Google apps. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the concept, but google calendar/contacts/email are all installed on my PE and EE and have been functioning completely normally ever since I upgraded to Ermine. Those apps are all bundled into Ermine--I didn't have to hunt them down or do anything special (other than set them up).

My point, more than anything, is that there are a multitude of ways to be productive, to use technology, and to consume. The ipad does not scratch everyone's itch, and obviously neither does the EE or PE. For me, the ipad is not what I'm looking for, and I fear that shortly it--and a billion other things designed to look like it-- will be my only options. For you that may be utopia. For me that is a disappointment. Therefore, rather than narrow the field, I'd like to see the field broaden so that multiple styles and tastes are accommodated.

Side note: Anyone seen the new Kobo (announced yesterday) and the new Nook (announced today)? Both Pearl e-ink devices aimed squarely at people who love to read. Both touchscreen with few physical buttons, both wi-fi (not 3G). Both under $150. Both under 8 ounces. Each connected to an online bookstore.

Neither can do what my PE does, but attractive new e-ink (apparently not dead) devices.

Originally Posted by goodereader

Hey guys.
I am writing an article on why educational tablets fail in the market place and am writing a piece on Entourage. Although I have both devices I am a little bit unsure of a few key points and hopefully you guys can help out. If anything, it will help provide a case study.
...
Why do you think the Edge and Pocket Edge failed to capture market attention, why did it fail in schools?

I'm a late adopter, and I love the thing. It's a concept I really wish will not be abandoned.

Some consideration from my point of view, to answer your question:

Here in Italy school teachers are mostly women, which are more exposed to digital divide than males. Even if they advertised it here (they did not), the device is not for the average teacher, not user friendly enough.
The device is not sturdy enough to be used everyday ouside home or office.
The device is pricey, and as every digital gadget, designed to last a too short time.
The device is by far the best ebook reader for academics, not for schools. (note that I'm the third doctoral student in just a few posts in this thread)
Schools are slow. And this is good, as it's stupid to run after the trends instead of planning your actions with the long term as main focus.

I dont think enTourage really aimed at schools: if they did, the did it very bad.

I'm 30, PhD applicant, main research topic: digital literacy. Informatics teacher in elementary schools since 2008.
--

I agree with almost of the comments on why the EE/PE did not make it financially. I think another reason is because they were "ahead of their time" and lacked the educational demand which was necessary. I live in Florida, USA and the state has just now mandated that all "text books" in the educational system be digital by 2015. Of course many counties are balking at this because of budget constraints. However, I undertand Clearwater, FL high school educational system has alreday gone digital with regards to text books. No mention was made however as to what device Clearwater is procuring for the students to "read" the digital books. I'm not certain if the cost is somehow beared/shared by the student. Maybe if these types of educational mandates had been made earlier by other states/countries entourage could have succeeded.

I think where Entourage went wrong is that it got lost in the noise. Until I saw the PE on Woot! I had no idea Entourage even existed. I really don't think joining an eInk and LCD display together in one unit was a mistake, because LCD is so limited in bright light. THAT is what they got right. Even if it did make the units heavier and thicker.

Fighting Google over the market was REALLY STUPID and probably contributed considerably to the disappointing sales. If half the perceived value of Android is the Market, losing that is a bad move unless you can CONVINCE prospective buyers you are replacing it and then some, and let's be honest, the Entourage Store DIDN'T. They would have done well to throw the MBA maggot that preached the gospel of "recurring revenues" off an overpass! (that's the Holy Grail in business school by the way -- the recurring revenues part, not being thrown off an overpass. There is no depth of he11 they will not cheerfully throw consumers into to achieve it!)

It's also early in the obvious Tablet Market life. Producing a product that delivers "more" but costs more is running upstream against consumer's tendencies to hold back and buy safe with a technology that is improving so quickly.

I don't know where Entourage focused their marketing -- it certainly wasn't anywhere I was looking. If they focused on academia, that was a mistake. They should have marketed to EVERYONE and then marketed to academia HARDER. Increased volume would have provided margin to compete with newer models on price (for a time).

Originally Posted by netrobot

I don't know where Entourage focused their marketing -- it certainly wasn't anywhere I was looking. If they focused on academia, that was a mistake. They should have marketed to EVERYONE and then marketed to academia HARDER. Increased volume would have provided margin to compete with newer models on price (for a time).

Ditto.

Originally Posted by kenjennings

Where did they go wrong?

Casual consumers couldn't see justification for the increased price/number of screens, because there was little unique software that integrated the two. While there was considerable developer enthusiasm for the device, little edge-specific software exists, because the company provided no support to developers. Entourage also missed the opportunities (pointed out by some here) to exploit a variety of markets where such a device would fit nicely. The management of the company and marketing effectiveness was legendary in its lameness.

Well said.

Originally Posted by kennyminot

I've never seen a single study - aside from people's individual experiences - that shows "eye strain" is worse on an LCD screen.

But when so many people can 'experience' it, do we really need a study to justify it??
I dont think e-ink vs. LCD is just a matter of personal preference...personally I cannot look at LCD screens for more than 8-10 hours a day...too much time in front of the laptop/computer, I can feel the eye-strain...eyes become red/tired/irritated/water etc etc...& these are symptoms I have heard most people around me talk about...maybe your tolerance level is higher...but can anyone honestly tell me that they have never felt tired eyes after hours of staring at the screen?? (I'm genuinely asking this as a question, its not meant to be rhetoric)

I do agree with you on some points that the e-ink doesnt "seem ready for consumer use yet"...but thats the problem with the E-ink technology itself... & frankly with so many new single screen devices that can switch between e-ink & LCD modes, I doubt e-ink would have a future unless they really update their technology fast...

Ah, I see. Someone else pointed out that the info on deleting library contents is in the manual. Doh!

RTFM!

I am going to downgrade back to dingo then try the upgrade again and see if it solves my hibernate problem.


Update: I downgraded back to dingo then reapplied the ermine update and hibernate still doesn't work right.

Originally Posted by mark.r

Ah, I see. Someone else pointed out that the info on deleting library contents is in the manual. Doh!

RTFM!

I am going to downgrade back to dingo then try the upgrade again and see if it solves my hibernate problem.

Real men don't read instructions first anyway. Anyway, hope the downgrade and upgrade cures your hibernation issue on the PE. My son and I both have PEs and hibernation works really well.

Originally Posted by Filark

Side note: Anyone seen the new Kobo (announced yesterday) and the new Nook (announced today)? Both Pearl e-ink devices aimed squarely at people who love to read. Both touchscreen with few physical buttons, both wi-fi (not 3G). Both under $150. Both under 8 ounces. Each connected to an online bookstore.

Neither can do what my PE does, but attractive new e-ink (apparently not dead) devices.

We were at Book Expo for our Blog and got in on the Kobo Launch and then to Union Square for the Nook Launch

http://goodereader.com/blog/electron...ok-2-e-reader/

http://goodereader.com/blog/electron...reader-review/

For me, the EE was the only game in town (still is, to the best of my knowledge). I wanted an eInk screen, 9.7" or greater and really, really good pdf capabilities. When I bought the EE, the only other major 9.7" eInk was the Kindle DX (still is, I think), and at the time, it was only $10 or $20 cheaper than the EE. And, I've heard it's pretty bad with pdfs. I've heard even the new, improved version is still bad with pdfs, but I haven't played with one.

I wonder if they should have tried to get Google support via Google books, which has pdf and epub (Kindle doesn't do epub at all and pdf-?). Lots of the old, out of copyright books on Google books would be painful to read on a 6", especially with any illustrations in the text. I've tried to read them on my laptop, and it's not pleasant, though the response times and features like zoom work much, much better.

And, add me to the list of not wanting to read books on an lcd. Florescent lighting makes my eyes fatigued, and the florescent backlighting on the lcd is no exception. So, Kindle, iPad, Nook, etc all are not very suitable for what I want. Maybe in the future...