Why I'm not going to buy eDGe... at least in Europe... (a few words about pricing)

Originally Posted by pirx

... I did order an eDGe from the importer in the netherlands (hoping to receive it next week ) but only because I am selfemployed and want to use it professionaly.

That there are sound economic reasons for them to price it like they do ... Well, we can understand that. ...

Thanks for you opinion, pirx. You put my ideas in much finer words.

Maybe here in Europe we have a wrong perspective. In the USA eDGe can be aimed at academics & students and even at school pupils. Here in Europe, with that price, the target must be different. It's companies, self-employed pirx's and not students or (junior) academics.

Originally Posted by Melkor

Well I wouldn't like to buy eDGe for the cost of a netbook, but as I showed it is possible to buy a netbook & e-reader for half the European price of eDGe.

Does that netbook have a touchscreen or just a basic LCD? Is that eInk screen 9.7" rather than 6"? Those are the two most expensive individual components of the eDGe and if the substitutes lack those specific features, then you've failed to make a fair apples-to-apples comparison.

Sorry that you feel like I'm calling you a "village idiot," but your posts are either not logically coherent and/or not consistent with basic microeconomic theory. Besides the errors that I've previously mentioned, there is another one: on the one hand, you claim that the eDGe features a unique combination of features, but then proceed to assume that its price should be subject to competitive market pressures... if it's truly a device with unique features, then by definition substitutes (or at least perfect substitutes) do not exist. In the absence of near-perfect substitutes, then enTourage operates as a pseudo-monopolist. According to neoclassical microeconomic theory, in a monopoly, economic profits are possible, but only because excess demand exists (i.e., an underprovision of the good). In other words, the excess demand (of which you are representative) is a natural consequence of the fact that the eDGe is a unique combination of features!

But I digress... the factors that make the eDGe more expensive in Europe are mostly outside of enTourage's control (unions, tax structure, etc). Because they can't sell the eDGe at a good price point, originally they weren't even planning on European distribution. When a number of people requested it, they contracted with CDW to sell it as an afterthought.

In my mind, it only makes sense to petition enTourage to make changes that it is in a position to do. And lowering the price in Europe isn't within their control at this point (for all of the reasons mentioned). As per their business plan, they are focusing their attention almost entirely on the US market--and they seem to be doing a pretty good job with that (i.e., being out-of-stock on the Midnight Blues).

Originally Posted by Melkor

And don't compare eDGe to BMW or mansions. It's as inaccurate as my comparison of eDGe to netbooks. BMW is Apple or Amazon, entourage (no matter how much I like them) isn't even a Fiat. It's a Tata from India in this comparison....

Not that I am a paid advocate for Tata, but this for your information. It is a multinational conglomerate of many businesses. One of it's businesses is automotive. FYI It is the 18th largest automotive company in the world.

Among other brands, Tata Automotive owns the British Jaguar Land Rover (JLR) business, which also includes the Daimler, Lanchester and Rover brands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tata_Motors


It will be the day when EE becomes the 18th largest technology company in the world. They are on their way though...

Originally Posted by walt526

In my mind, it only makes sense to petition enTourage to make changes that it is in a position to do. And lowering the price in Europe isn't within their control at this point (for all of the reasons mentioned). As per their business plan, they are focusing their attention almost entirely on the US market--and they seem to be doing a pretty good job with that (i.e., being out-of-stock on the Midnight Blues).

walt526, thanks for the microeconomic input, but there's nothing I can do with that nor do I agree with your conclusions. But that's not the point.

I wanted to find out if I'm the only one dissatisfied with the European price - I'm not.
I wanted to find out what reasons there are for the high price - nearly each post mantions some new reasons.
I wished for solutions to some/most/all of those reasons - and there are more and more of those.

So let's concentrate what can be done here, despite the fact that entourage isn't really into the European market (yet) - which also has been stated and explained a few times.

The options that surfaced so far are (for the European customer):
1. buy it in the USA and have it shipped.
2. buy it for a company to get some taxes back (VAT + income tax)
plus, ask entoruage to consider the following (and I already have done that):
3. open the US store to the European market
4. ship eDGes directly from the manufacturer in China
5. have a larger number of European distributors to enhance competition

Price-wise, the electronic market in Europe is extremerely unfavourable for the avarage customer. What we would be able to buy in USA or Asia is too expensive in Europe, and even more expensive in central Europe. What we would like to buy, especially modern technologies, isn't really available.

Some years ago Poles were going for weekend trips to NY for electronics. After buying 3 laptops the whole trip cost them $0, because the difference in prices was so high. Now it's not so terrible any more but the differences are still substantial. And we still earn much less than you. Polish avarage salary is ca. $1000/month before the 40% tax! My avarage is $1500/month but only after adding my wife's salary, and still before the tax...

So walt526, many thanks for your explanations, but can you offer some solutions?

As a point of clarification, in my initial post I agreed that the eDGe is a poor value for Europeans right now. I wouldn't have bought an eDGe if the price had been ~$750 and I don't begrudge you for feeling frustrated about it.

What I took issue with is your persistence in making claims that it was in enTourage's ability and interest to offer the eDGe at a more favorable price within a very short period of time... and then supporting those assertions with arguments that were either ignorant of simple facts, inconsistent with basic economics, and/or otherwise logically incoherent. For example, in your penultimate paragraph of your last post, you note that Poles earn substantially less... is it not immediately obvious to you why that's a reason for enTourage *not* to invest heavily in establishing a market presence? That completely undermines your initial post when you asserted that Eastern Europe represented an incredibly untapped market opportunity for enTourage...

But I digress. I don't have any additional ideas for how you can buy an eDGe--and never asserted that I did. Rather, I simply sought to correct what I believed to be inaccurate statements with respect to what was either within enTourage's purview or interest. My suggestions for you would be simply suggest that you confine your future remarks to lamenting your inability to afford an eDGe rather than asserting that enTourage is overlooking some sort of tremendous market opportunity by focusing on other markets for the foreseeable future. If you make claims that defy economics, then I will feel compelled to deconstruct your logic and explain precisely why I see that post as in error.

I got mine from the United States for 550 euros, including customs, taxes, shipping etc. I could've made it for even less money, for about 510 euros, but I didn't know that at the time. In Eastern Europe, it's about two average monthly salaries. However, I know I will benefit from using the Edge (that including the finally non-existent eye strain ), so the price wasn't really an issue.

I own a netbook, but for a completely different purpose. When I manage to connect the Edge to the Internet, I'm sure I will be using my netbook and desktop much less. The Edge simply cannot be compared to laptops, the reading on it is a real pleasure (not to mention the note taking function).

Simply, if you think it's too expensive considering the functions it offers you, don't buy it.

Originally Posted by emen

I got mine from the United States for 550 euros, including customs, taxes, shipping etc. ...

I checked more about shipping from the USA to Poland.

There are no customs to be paid. (So if you paid any customs check if actually there wasn't any mistake. Or there are customs in other EU countries.)
There is a flat VAT on all electronics, 22%. (Of course if you "smuggle" it into EU than you're not paying it, but then you can't buy it for your company.)
BUT if you're buyng eDGe for a company, then probably you can get that VAT back, despite other advantages of purchasing anything for a company.
There is no additional income tax or any other tax imposed by Poland. (So they can't be refunded )

I'm still looking for some info if the taxes included within the US price can be refunded, probably by IRS (International Revenue Service).

So yes, having eDGe shipped from the USA is still the cheapest option for European buyers

Originally Posted by emen

... I could've made it for even less money, for about 510 euros, but I didn't know that at the time. ...

Can you tell us how you could make it €40 cheaper?

$539 for eDGe in the USA
around $30 for USA shippment
around $30 for USA-EU shippment?
VAT?

Originally Posted by emen

... Simply, if you think it's too expensive considering the functions it offers you, don't buy it. ...

No I don't think it's too expensive, when it = US price. It's a bit too high but fair. And it will become cheaper sooner or later.
What I don't like is the European price, which you can easily beat on your own by avoiding EU stores when buying on your own from the USA. Even when you do it legally and pay the extra 22% VAT (in the Polish case) it is still $100 cheaper than from EU stores. So even after shipping costs, it will be cheaper.

If you believe the European price is not too expensive, then why did you have it shipped from the USA? Unless you didn't want to wait for the EU stores, of course.

And one more thing. Both PLN (Polish zloty) and € gain over $ every day, so actually every day it is becomming cheaper and cheaper to have eDGe shipped from the USA in comparison to EU stores.

You can save money by ordering the Edge on Ebay or Mobileread forums (not a single EE was offered at Ebay when I ordered mine). I bought the Edge via a forwarding service, because it wasn't available in Europe when I ordered it.

As the convertion between $ and € hoovers around $1.3 = €1, the price for eDGe is now set at above $770. However, if the tendency continues and we'll go back to $1.4 or even $1.5 per €1, the European price, €599, will be even more unfavourable. I hope the entourage's US store will allow shipping to Europe (and subtract any US taxes?!?) to avoid extra costs of double shipping or forwarding. There are already a few shops in the EU selling eDGe, but they can't compete with the US price expecially when buying in $$ is so much cheaper than in €€.

Internet info on eDGe promotion and publicity in the USA is amazing, so I can only wish you great sales for the incoming academic year.

Early August gives us the following:

€599 = $777 (Very slowly but it's going up from $760 two months ago.)

But there is a light in the tunnel. http://www.ebookreaderstore.nl/ereaders/entourage-edge/ sells EE for €574 = $744.

Originally Posted by Melkor

But there is a light in the tunnel. http://www.ebookreaderstore.nl/ereaders/entourage-edge/ sells EE for €574 = $744.

To be correct:
bax-shop.nl & easereader.nl & electronicreading.eu: have only the Midnight Blue for €599
e-readerweb.nl: has all colors for € 589
ebookreaderstore.nl & tabletstore.nl: have all colors for €599, but the white for € 574

So, somebody must dislike the white one over here.

Melkor, I bought it in Germany for 575 euros, http://ebooks-guenstiger.de or ebay.de. You can try to send an e-mail to Matthias Becker, he is a good seller, maybe you can obtain a discount

Meilkor (and others), maybe I missed something, but shouldn't you be complaining about the European Union VAT instead of the enTourage price?