Eminent Domain For Knowledge

[carld]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

All I would have "stolen/shared" is the idea you have already presented to the world.

You are completely wrong. You're stealing the product of someone's hard work. Or do you imagine the word fairy pops up at night and puts all that writing on the page?

[DiapDealer]

I have knowledge. Written down on paper and digitized on my computer. It's mine, I thought it up, put it into words, and I'm not sharing it with anyone. In fact, I'm going to hoard it forever. So you might as well give up on your quest for all available knowledge now, Giggles, because I've got some you'll never be able to copy and share... eat that and despair.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by ficbot

So, one could argue, your house is already 'presented to the world' so I should have it. Or your child is already 'presented to the world' so I should be able to take that too (for the common good, of course). Ridiculous. I should be entitled to fair pay (and exclusivity) for the fair span of the work's copyright. Again, what exactly constitutes a 'fair span' is arguably debatable, the the reason it exists---so that a creator can have the opportunity to profit from their own works before it eventually does enter into the public domain---is a fair one.

You will retain the exclusive right to sell or be the recipient of click through donation button, but you will not have the right to tell me what I can and cannot copy/share.

I suppose we can keep copyright if it is reimagined in this way, where only the creator can profit and everyone else is allowed to copy and share freely. The mechanisms for profiting with zero cost infinite copies available do exist, we should take advantage of them.

The argument that no one will pay for things they can download for free is just as ridiculous as saying that you are going to come take my house or some such thing

People will have to reeducated about the value of donating to worthwhile creations, but that's doable.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I have knowledge. Written down on paper and digitized on my computer. It's mine, I thought it up, put it into words, and I'm not sharing it with anyone. In fact, I'm going to hoard it forever. So you might as well give up on your quest for all available knowledge now, Giggles, because I've got some you'll never be able to copy and share... eat that and despair.

I would say that the information you have written down would have to be shared before it became knowledge, at the moment it is information known only to one person.

[DiapDealer]

Oh, but it's good... real good.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

The argument that no one will pay for things they can download for free is just as ridiculous as saying that you are going to come take my house or some such thing

Sorry, but I have the need and right to own your property. It's an individual thing. Please make a list of everything you own available for my perusal. You can deliver it any time within 30 days. See, I can be reasonable.

[Penforhire]

Diap, that's cracking me up. I have this vision of Clint Eastwood writing "unknown" on the underside of a rock at the end of "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly."

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by carld

Sorry, but I have the need and right to own your property. It's an individual thing. Please make a list of everything you own available for my perusal. You can deliver it any time within 30 days. See, I can be reasonable.

What we're talking about is ideas. It is thought that ideas cannot be copyrighted, but what is an idea if not the words on a page?

[ficbot]

You misunderstand. Anybody can go and pick berries off a tree, crush them down and get a coloured paste they can use to make pictures and colour skin or fabric. Not everybody does so. Similarly, anybody can come up with an idea. Not everyone sets out that idea in an artistic, salable way which takes time and effort for which they should be compensated within the life of a fair term of copyright. For instance, 'boy finds out he has magical powers' is an idea and cannot be copyighted. 'Harry Potter' is a work of artistic expression based on this idea, and its rights-holder and her heirs will profit from it until it eventually it returns to the public domain. 'The Name of the Wind' by Patrick Rothfuss is another best-seller based on this same idea. 'Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell' by Susanna Clarke is based on this same idea. 'The Dresden Files' by Jim Butcher is based on this same idea. 'The Magicians' by Lev Grossman is based on this same idea. And so on. All are very different treatments of this idea---Moodie's is historical fiction, for instance---which shows us that just having the idea is not at all the same as actually implementing it.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

What we're talking about is ideas. It is thought that ideas cannot be copyrighted, but what is an idea if not the words on a page?

Nope, we're talking about you taking my book and sharing it out to everyone who wants a copy. When I write a book I'm not just writing down an idea, I'm writing a work of fiction. An idea is not a book, it's just an idea.

The fact that you don't differentiate between an idea for a book, and all the time and hard work it takes to transform that idea into a novel, shows that your understanding of the creative process and intellectual property is sorely lacking.

A book represents a lot of hard work. I don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge this simple fact. A book is the result of an author's effort and usually lots of it. You have no right to take the fruits of his labor just because you want it.

[Giggleton]

I like to express myself artistically by sharing other people's work.

Perhaps our pricing scheme for all things needs to be re-evaluated.

[Hellmark]

That isn't art. You are showing no imaginative skill in execution or arrangement. Quit trying to justify your BS.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

That isn't art. You are showing no imaginative skill in execution or arrangement. Quit trying to justify your BS.

Art,Imagination,Execution,Arrangement. The previous words rely on definitions that are subject to change. Who are you to say that the repackaging of an author's work into a nicely formatted anthology does not require Art and Imagination?

If I say that my art is in fact the copying and sharing of another's art, then that is the case. You might say otherwise, and so this statement would be an expression of your art.

I'm not trying to justify anything, copying/sharing is already just.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

If I say that my art is in fact the copying and sharing of another's art, then that is the case. You might say otherwise, and so this statement would be an expression of your art.

I "art" in your general direction.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Art,Imagination,Execution,Arrangement. The previous words rely on definitions that are subject to change. Who are you to say that the repackaging of an author's work into a nicely formatted anthology does not require Art and Imagination?

If I say that my art is in fact the copying and sharing of another's art, then that is the case. You might say otherwise, and so this statement would be an expression of your art.

I'm not trying to justify anything, copying/sharing is already just.

Considering how the definitions have remained fairly constant over the last few hundred years, I still call BS.