360 Plus 360 Plus on sale for 113 $

[paola]

Originally Posted by Poppaea

Those in Europe who want to take advantage of this offer can use Borderlinx or USUnlocked.

Poppea, this is brilliant, I did not know such services existed, thank you!

@ IndecisiveMe: the links Poppea put should work for Australia, too!

[kacir]

Originally Posted by paola

Poppea, this is brilliant, I did not know such services existed, thank you!

There are many, many such services. Have a look around, to select the best one that serves specifically your corner of world.
Somehow most of the goods you can buy in USA seem to be substantially cheaper, so there are many companies that built their business model around the fact.

By the way, even if you slapped 20% VAT on the top of those $113, you still only get 95Euro. Compare that with 169Euro for older model we get here in Europe.

[paola]

Originally Posted by kacir

There are many, many such services. Have a look around, to select the best one that serves specifically your corner of world.

yes, I should have thought something like this had to exist, given the demand for many many goods that are sold so much cheaper in the US than in Europe. The snag I guess must be in case of a return: even if the seller takes the cost, I would still have to pay the "return" leg to the company providing the US address, so I'll have to bear this in mind.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by kacir

By the way, even if you slapped 20% VAT on the top of those $113, you still only get 95Euro. Compare that with 169Euro for older model we get here in Europe.

Out of curiosity, is it unusual for european retailers to tie deep discount sales to major holidays?

Pocketbook isn't alone in offering a nice discount on an ebook reader right now; the Sony PRS-350 is running $109 and the Aluratek Libre $49.

A variety of other retailers (Sears, Best Buy, Radio Shack, Office Depot, etc) are also offering up 30-50% off on furniture, appliances, electronics, what-not, all tied to the Memorial Day holiday (the "unofficial" start of summer). Similar deals are common for the 4th of July and Labor day (the "unofficial" end of summer), and even more so, the day after Thanksgiving, aka, Black Friday.

I know Canadians have their biggest sales on "boxing day", the day after Christmas, but on the other side of the pond...?

Are things that different?

[kacir]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Out of curiosity, is it unusual for european retailers to tie deep discount sales to major holidays?
...
Are things that different?

Things are different.
Here, in my little town there are quite a few competing chains, so all year round they issue sale of the week. Every week you receive a flyer with current discounts. Sometimes you come to shop to buy something from the flyer and they tell you "we only received two pieces and they were bought out 30 seconds after we opened". In such case I leave the shop without buying *anything* else. Even if that means I have to go elsewhere to buy milk or bread or whatever. I wish more people did so. Another lovely practice is that you buy something discounted and at home you find out that on the bill there is full price. You ALWAYS have to check whether the discounted price you see next to the goods is the one they bill you.
Some enterprising soul has set up site where all info about all discount flyers in town is aggregated, so when I run out of something that I buy in bulk, I can look up where to go to buy it.

Of course, with globalization we also see seasonal discounts, but not in such scale as in USA.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by kacir

Things are different.
Here, in my little town there are quite a few competing chains, so all year round they issue sale of the week. Every week you receive a flyer with current discounts. Sometimes you come to shop to buy something from the flyer and they tell you "we only received two pieces and they were bought out 30 seconds after we opened". In such case I leave the shop without buying *anything* else. Even if that means I have to go elsewhere to buy milk or bread or whatever. I wish more people did so. Another lovely practice is that you buy something discounted and at home you find out that on the bill there is full price. You ALWAYS have to check whether the discounted price you see next to the goods is the one they bill you.
Some enterprising soul has set up site where all info about all discount flyers in town is aggregated, so when I run out of something that I buy in bulk, I can look up where to go to buy it.

Of course, with globalization we also see seasonal discounts, but not in such scale as in USA.

Different indeed.
Ouch.
The practices you described were outlawed decades ago round these parts and most states have well-publicized mechanisms to oversee and enforce consumer protection, especially on sales. Which isn't to say that abuses don't happen but savvy consumers know they don't have to take it.
On limited quantity sales, stores have to pre-advertise the minimum stock per store (and make sure employees don't buy all of it) or offer rain-checks on demand to all comers.
Bait-and-switch is not tolerated; ads and signs must specify the stock number of the item and be honored. Substitutions may only be made with equal or better products.

These protections haven't come easy; they're not the gift of an all-wise paternalistic government, but rather the result of decades of battles between businesses and consumers unwilling to just put up with it. Of prodding government at all levels *and* voting with the wallet. Both. Politicians are easily bought but educated consumers aren't. Not without big discounts.

Personal experience: last month, KMart had a set of patio furniture on sale, 4 chairs with cushions, table with tempered glass top. Great deal. I missed it. When I did find out, the following week, they had a display unit at the entrance with the sale sign posted (which clearly stated the expiration date, BTW). Pointing to the display, they promptly removed the sign and honored the price which was 40% lower than the current price posted in the garden furniture dept. Somebody probably had to explain to the store manager why the sign was still there 5 days after expiring.

The US is a very competitive retail environment and most states are very business-friendly, which reduces the overhead and operating costs, with most of the savings filtering through to consumers. At the same time, 50 years after Nader made consumer advocacy a career, businesses know there are very real constraints on their practices and there are lines they cross (some still do) at their peril. Some businesses still haven't quite accepted that power has shifted towards consumers (the price-fix six big publishing houses, for one) but most have successfully adapted to the new market dynamics.

Consider the following example from the HDTV world:

For the 2011 model Sony and Samsung, among others "coincidentally" decided to require retailers to limit advertised discounts to 10%:
http://hdguru.com/hdtv-makers-to-dea...629/#more-4629

Sales dropped.
And stayed down for months.
So much for *that* scheme:
http://hdguru.com/best-buy-finally-b...685/#more-4685

There was no boycott, no organized hue-and-cry; just consumers being consumers.

It took a few months but in the end, supply and demand won out.
(Maybe the vendors will get the message; maybe they'll try again. Panasonic's being trying to stamp out discounting since the last century, to no avail.)

Consumers *expect* weekly sales and *big* holiday discounts from retailers:
http://hdguru.com/hot-memorial-day-h...750/#more-4750

Without them they'll wait or go elsewhere.
Vendors that don't follow the playbook end up surrendering sales and customers to the competition. And, as many businesses have discovered (most recently prominent, BORDERS), in competitive markets losing sales may be survivable but losing customers isn't.

Now, I've no special insight into Pocketbook's strategy, but I would hazard a guess that after a week of big pricing news from Kobo, B&N, and Amazon, the loss of revenue from a few days' sales might be worth it to them to raise their new product's visibility a bit in the largest and most competitive market.

Just a guess, mind you.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Different indeed.
Ouch.
The practices you described were outlawed decades ago round these parts and most states have well-publicized mechanisms to oversee and enforce consumer protection, especially on sales. Which isn't to say that abuses don't happen but savvy consumers know they don't have to take it.

On the other hand we have quite strict consumer-protection laws regarding warranty.
And if there is a price-tag on the shop floor for some merchandise they HAVE to sell it to you for that price.
A friend of mine discovered some furniture with a discount price and when he went to pay for it he was billed full price. The clerk laconically informed him, that all she can do is scan the barcode and enter number of units. After bloody battle with *all* levels of management in department store that lasted for more than 2 hours he got that dicsount. He had to threaten them repeatedly with calling special bureau we have for overseeing of all merchants. But my friend is a special case. He knows his rights and is very ... determined.

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Now, I've no special insight into Pocketbook's strategy, but I would hazard a guess that after a week of big pricing news from Kobo, B&N, and Amazon, the loss of revenue from a few days' sales might be worth it to them to raise their new product's visibility a bit in the largest and most competitive market.

Just a guess, mind you.

My guess (based on Dulins comment) is that the seller made almost no profit on that sale and that the Kiev headquarters have nothing to do with that particular discount.

The question is, how much more expensive are the operating costs of business in Europe and how much of the price difference comes from: "*Everyone*(1) rips off European consumers, so why shouldn't we?"

(1) Amazon is THE only company that sells e-ink readers for the same price in Europe. They make up the difference on that usurious $2 "wireless delivery fee" they tack on each e-book (even if you only own WiFi-only Kindle). ;-)

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by kacir

The question is, how much more expensive are the operating costs of business in Europe and how much of the price difference comes from: "*Everyone*(1) rips off European consumers, so why shouldn't we?"

(1) Amazon is THE only company that sells e-ink readers for the same price in Europe. They make up the difference on that usurious $2 "wireless delivery fee" they tack on each e-book (even if you only own WiFi-only Kindle). ;-)

I thought Amazon phased out that charge a few months back...?

How much higher are european business costs is obscured by a lot of factors, like those mandatory warranties you mentioned. (Around here we can, for example, get new DVD players for $20 and MP3 players for $10---with three month warranties. Electronics retailers routinely make a ton of money on extended warranties so you could say the warranty is an option; you get to choose whether you want it or not and how much it is worth to you.)

I also understand localization and IP costs (trademarks, patents, etc) are significant on the continent as there are literally dozens of regional regulatory regimes whereas the US is a unitary market---one set of laws, one language, one design.

In the end, it may just be a matter of what "the market will bear".
As the HDTV case proves, businesses will always seek the highest price the market will tolerate and competitive markets are less tolerant of high prices because there will usually be room for an aggressive competitor to undercut the field and make it up in volume. Which is why competitors that push the market are respected by consumers and reviled by their opponents, whether their name be Walmart, Vizio, Borders (in its day), or Amazon.

It only takes one but it does take at least one.
Without it...

[Dulin's Books]

Originally Posted by kacir

My guess (based on Dulins comment) is that the seller made almost no profit on that sale and that the Kiev headquarters have nothing to do with that particular discount.

Except in this case the "seller" is the importer PocketBook USA itself. So they would make much higher profit then I on the same sale.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

I thought Amazon phased out that charge a few months back...?

Just today I have had discussion with Simon Royle in another thread. He discounted his book Tag (part one of Zumar Trilogy) to $0.99 and I see price $3.44. He (in Bangkok) sees price $2.99. Go figure.
So Amazon does charge more. The question is why. There are several options:
- they decided they earn more on that "wireless delivery surcharge" than on higher volume
- they kept his book at previous price for my region
- there is something terribly wrong with their database
- they keep surcharge for $0.99 books
- they make changes to prices gradually for various regions (perhaps they have different servers for different regions and the change in database is being propagated slowly)

[troll05]

Now this is a very interesting discussion...
I guess european retail prices also have a lot to do with the relative small markets you have here compared to the US and the varying tax rates. I travel a lot all over Europe, and most prices are lowest in Germany
All over the Euro zone prices are comparatively higher, depending on the taxes of the respective countries.
For GB, Scandinavia and most eastern states you also have the problem of varying currency rates and import tolls, although I don't understand why I found a PB 602 in the Ukraine tagged at ~ 250€ when it's sold for little under 200 in Germany
That said, there also is a phenomenon I call localism. Whenever I talk to friends about special offers or bargains, they never look out of their local markets. They are quite astounded when I'm telling them about things I ordered from varios countries all over Europe, which were much cheaper than here despite shipping costs and customs. A country like the US, where distances greater 500 miles are quite common and at your destination you have the same prices than at home (and the same shipping costs to NY from LA or NJ) gives customers a very different attitude towards local traders than in old Europe.
And a merchant would be bad at his job, if he wouldn't try to pry the max price out of his customers, regardless where he or they live

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by troll05

And a merchant would be bad at his job, if he wouldn't try to pry the max price out of his customers, regardless where he or they live

Yes and no.
Product pricing is more black art than science with a lot of linked variables (availability, margin, sales volume, follow-up sales, etc) but a merchant's duty is to maximize net profit. Sometimes, maximum profit can be found at a lower per-unit price point.

About the locality effect: I used to see something much like it ten, twelve years ago before online commerce became mainstream.
It's not uncommon for people to stick with the familiar long past the point it's been superceded; not everybody is as comfortable with new approaches as early adopters.
It takes time for new paradigms to reach the mainstream and beyond.
And some people never do buy in.

[PocketGoods]

Originally Posted by kacir

They sell older model for 169 EURO!!! at
http://pocketbook.de/products/pocketbook-360/
http://www.my-ebook-reader.eu/ereader/pocketbook/

and this site:
http://www.pocketbook-shop.de/index....emid=6&lang=en
has no shame in selling THE OLD MODEL for 169 EURO!!! with text: "You save 70Eur." (against old imaginary price 239Eur.)


And USA based sites are specifically forbidden to sell to Europe.
PocketBook is produced by Ukrainian company and manufactured in China. Go figure.

I am not going to comment further, because then my comment would have to be moderated to remove lots and *lots* of colorful swearwords.

Hi!

Don't be so angry about our prices.

I can't explain, how our colleagues from US could it manage to make this prices ..

We have to buy the goods from our distributor in Germany and he has currently wholesale prices, that are actually making it impossible for us to make regular profits. I just have reduced my prices for PB360 and now we are selling them for 149 EUR. It is already under our current wholesale price.

I am seriously thinking about to quit my shop activity and do something more profitable.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by PocketGoods

Don't be so angry about our prices.

I am not angry at your prices. Honestly.
I even stopped my previous comment before I started rambling ;-).

If I wanted to get angry I would have to ask why it is that USA distributors [obviously] get wholesale prices that are so ... different.

I am seriously confused here, with the entire, complex system of charging European customers more. I do not know why it is so. Perhaps the cost of doing business is really that much higher here (In which case I should start directing my ire towards bureaucrats in Brussels, or politicians sitting in our parliament), perhaps everybody charges more just because European customers are used to being ripped off. Or, most probably, it is a combination of all those factors and some others (like longer warranty (but warranty is the same for PB on both sides of pond)).

If there is somebody *at PocketBook* I should be dissatisfied with, it would be guys at headquarters in Kiev. They are the ones that decide what to sell and where and for what prices. They are the ones that promised firmware features that didn't get delivered.
It baffles me, for example (I am not angry ;-) because I am not shopping for a new reader at the moment) why there are no new PB360PLUS models for sale in Europe. Is there disagreement between guys in Kiev and guys in Germany? Do they want to sell the entire stock of "good old" PB360+ before introducing new models? In the meanwhile the new Nook Touch looks very interesting [:evil laughter:] (I wish I wasn't so spoiled by phenomenal firmware features in my PB)

Imagine, how many readers would you be able to sell if the cost of one modest reader was higher than the Average Monthly Wage in your country.
Have a look, at the average salary in Ukraine http://en.ura-inform.com/economics/2...plsred?nocache - and take into account that those are very optimistic estimates. Minimum monthly wage is 625UAH - 78USD. And do take into account that they pay substantially higher income taxes than you do. Yet, in Ukraine they sell PocketBook readers for higher prices than in USA (half a world away)

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by kacir

In the meanwhile the new Nook Touch looks very interesting [:evil laughter:] (I wish I wasn't so spoiled by phenomenal firmware features in my PB)

The Nook STR hardware is very interesting; very PB360ish, actually.
The software, a lot less. No landscape mode readly hurts. And the home page has ads.
Suboptimal.

Much more interesting, it has already been hacked to run (of course!) Angry Birds.
Any day now they'll get it up to full Android 2.1 functionality, which means FBreader, Coolreader, Overdrive, and Bluefire. Maybe even Softmaker office. With WiFi and pearl, it might be worth getting as a hacker project.

Just make sure you read the full 178 page mandatory Terms and Conditions contract you have to agree to before you can use it.