Poll: Touchscreen or Buttons (E-ink)

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

As for fingerprints, I think the Kindle screen handles them well, but I can certainly see why many people don't like the idea of touching the surface they read. I personally can live with it for better functionality.

I think it's just a matter of how different people figure the cost:benefit ratio. Some folks are disturbed by the slightest mark or smudge, and will fixate on it to the point that it harms their reading experience (no matter where the mark is, over text or on the periphery). For them, the time saved with touchscreen navigation for the occasional word lookup or footnote will be outweighed by the time spent constantly cleaning it.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

but if there's a specific gesture that triggers it

Don't get me started on gestures.

There were certain characters that I was just never able to get right with Palm's Graffiti input. No matter how hard I practiced.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Don't get me started on gestures.

There were certain characters that I was just never able to get right with Palm's Graffiti input. No matter how hard I practiced.

Oh, I hear you.

I loved the April Fools Day "Google Integrates Gestures Into Gmail" for that reason alone.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

Oh, I hear you.

I loved the April Fools Day "Google Integrates Gestures Into Gmail" for that reason alone.

God help me, I had friend over in April who 100% thought that was real.

[anamardoll]

Haha, I LOVED their chart.

http://www.technolism.com/wp-content.../04/image1.png

"Star Message" is the best one.

Apparently, someone DID make it a reality...

http://www.ubergizmo.com/2011/04/kin...-into-reality/

[DMB]

I had a Nokia phone with a touchscreen and a separate keyboard some years back. It had a stylus for the screen but I was always leaving the stylus around and really thought it was fiddly.

I don't like the thought of a touch-screen ereader much because I just know that with a whole lot of touch functions I'd manage to keep navigating out of my page without meaning to. And in any case I just use my K3 for reading books. I don't browse with it. I only switch wireless on to download books I've already bought via my computer and then I switch it off again. I don't play games on it. I don't look up dictionaries. I occasionally bookmark places for reference, but that's about the only function I use apart from page turning. I'm another one-handed reader and I don't want anything that makes me use two when I'm reading. When I get a new book I put it in a collection. That's something I do use two hands for, but it's different from needing two hands when in the middle of a book.

Since I like simplicity, the K3 is OK for me and I'd rather not have touch. But then in my experience simple technology is always eventually messed up with extra bells and whistles that in my eyes are malfeatures. So I expect Kindles will get touch + buttons and all sorts of other things that I simply don't need for reading enjoyment.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by ApK

I sure can. If the little superscript number can't be hit accurately the first time, every-time, then even the Kindle's 5 way would be better.
If hitting the screen looks up a word or starts a highlight, or turns the page by accident, there's no plus at all.

If I have to get to a footnote halfway down the page I have to press the 5-way (or press and hold it) several times...down, then across to the correct work, then click to select. You're telling me that's as elegant as simply touching the link with a fingertip? I can understand if you prefer the clicky way, but to say it's easier boggles my mind. Even if the first word on the page is the one you want to click you are using twice the actions as touching the screen would need.

You're assuming that Amazon would take little to no care in the interface. I sometimes read on my phone (Kindle app in Windows Phone 7) and it is very easy to tap a footnote marker even on a phone screen. The touch (at least in WP7 OS) can tell the difference between a deliberate swipe and an accidental brush.

Ideally certain controls could be disabled or sensitivity could be adjusted.

I disagree. One, while I do think touch could make things less tedious in many cases, I have no need to waste screen real estate or time looking at cover pictures. I can look up the covers if I need to see a picture. The Kindle's text list and search capability makes finding a book far faster and easier than on, say, my PRS-350. I hate that 'cover flow' type stuff.

My old Sony solves this quite easily: you could view books by a list or by covers. I personally like to see covers, and you can fit 3x3 covers easily on a 6" screen. My current Kindle displays 10 books in a list. To open the book at the bottom of that list currently requires pressing down 9 times. On a touch screen it would require a single touch on the book title and/or cover image.

The keyboard is one true all or nothing proposition. Unlike features like audio, browsers, touch, which cn all be ignored if you don't want to use them, the mere presence of keyboard is great if you want it, but can only screw up the form factor of the device if you don't.
That's going to be hard to address if a good number of customers are on each side of the keyboard issue.
I wonder if Amazon will consider this in their next move.

You're absolutely right. But I don't think Amazon is going to worry too much about the minority users, and I believe (though I don't have any actual data to base this belief on so it could be very wrong) that most users simply don't use the keyboard much, and could easily handle a touch keyboard.

No matter how much of an outcry removing the keyboard would cause on a forum like this Amazon will be doing the right thing if 90% of their customers only use the keyboard to search for a book or look up a definition.

I am using a touch keyboard on my phone after previously only using physical keyboards. It's a compromise, and my next phone will probably have a physical keyboard, but as long as I'm mostly typing single words at a time I can handle the compromise.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

For what it's worth, people with specific disabilities will have an easier time with buttons than with touch screens.

I realize you probably weren't trying to take in that special set of consumers with your statement, but I thought I'd chime in to remind you that "anyone" is a large group and they don't all have the same user needs. Alas for those tasked with building the Perfect eReader.

True, but Amazon are not going to abandon their main customers for the sake of the small market of consumers who need special consideration.

I'm not saying I agree with that attitude, but Amazon has a lot of money invested in Kindle.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

True, but Amazon are not going to abandon their main customers for the sake of the small market of consumers who need special consideration.

I'm not saying I agree with that attitude, but Amazon has a lot of money invested in Kindle.

Not suggesting otherwise (unfortunately). Just being OCD about correcting your "anyone".

I'll get back on topic now.

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yes, tapping the link to a footnote may be a little easier than navigating to the link with a joypad and clicking... maybe...

One touch vs several clicks. I don't see a maybe there.

but here's my question. If the ebook creator didn't create a link in the footnote back to the calling text (as they very commonly don't do), how would you get back to where you were reading, on a touch-screen reader with only page turn buttons? Is there a special "Back" swipe?

I think Amazon could solve this pretty easily. Add a 'back' touch button whenever a link is followed. Or, for that matter, keep a physical back button. All good smartphones have a physcal back button for various uses.

I don't think your argument speaks against or for any particular navigation method. It highlights a potential problem that needs a solution.

It seems to me that a touch-only reader (or a reader with only two page turn buttons) could actually hinder in-book navigation--if the ebook wasn't created with the necessary links to make it easy. If I'm completely wrong and there is no issue here, then great. But otherwise, I'd rather not have to rely on the ebook producer to take care of my in-book navigation needs.

I don't think there are any navigation issues with touch that can't easily be solved with a couple of extra buttons or a clever UI design. It's not a question of whether touch or physical buttons is the 'best' method of control. It's about what is best for each aspect of using a Kindle.

There are tablets and smartphones out there with only a few physical buttons (only 1 on the Apple devices if I'm not mistaken), so these issues are easily addressed.

I think Amazon have proven they care enough to come up with a control method that works easily. If they couldn't do this there wouldn't be so much skepticism about a potential new way of navigating the Kindle.

[OtterBooks]

I could deal with a touch keyboard. I don't mind having to touch the screen once a month, which is slightly more than I currently use the keyboard.

[ApK]

djgreedo,

Amazon has made three successful generations of Kindles with no touch and physical keyboards. This should tell you something about what their customers want.

I'm sure Amazon would take care with a touch UI, as I'm sure Sony and B&N took care, yet I frequently miss when trying to look up words on my Sony and we saw a new Nook STR video here where the rep doing the demo failed to get swipe to work half the time.

You don't need to click 9 times to get to the bottom of a Kindle screen list. Press down and hold. One motion, 2 seconds, no fingerprints.

I'm sure touch would make some stuff better. I'd like the option for many things, but for basic reading related navigation, the Kindle simply isn't as tedious or inefficient as you make it out. In many situations, owning both it and a touch reader myself, I can see how I'd still prefer it. I can totally get YOU and others not liking it's nav methods, but Kindle's success, the poll results here, and the owners comments are all testament to the fact that many of us do.

Apple iDevices have more than one button. They have one on the front, several more on the sides. Only rarely used for nav related stuff as I understand, usually sleep and volume.

Lastly, is your screen name said like "didgeridoo" like the musical instrument, or "DJ Greedo" like the green guy from Star Wars spinning records? Or....?


p.s. My enthusiasm for the Kindle is only SLIGHTLY diminished by the fact that after typing this whole thing on the freaking little keyboard, the browser just crashed on me and I had to come up to my desktop PC to rewrite it. GRR!

[djgreedo]

Originally Posted by ApK

djgreedo,

Amazon has made three successful generations of Kindles with no touch and physical keyboards. This should tell you something about what their customers want.

And paper lasted thousands of years.

I'm sure Amazon would take care with a touch UI, as I'm sure Sony and B&N took care, yet I frequently miss when trying to look up words on my Sony and we saw a new Nook STR video here where the rep doing the demo failed to get swipe to work half the time.

Nothing you say here indicates that touch is worse than non-touch. Implementation makes a big difference, and a bad implementation of touch does not prove that all touch control is doomed.

You don't need to click 9 times to get to the bottom of a Kindle screen list. Press down and hold. One motion, 2 seconds, no fingerprints.

Still a lot more work than reaching up and touching the item you want. e-ink doesn't have much of a problem with fingerprints.

I'm sure touch would make some stuff better. I'd like the option for many things, but for basic reading related navigation, the Kindle simply isn't as tedious or inefficient as you make it out.

My measure of tedious is if I avoid doing things because they require too much effort vs payoff then it's tedious. For example writing long emails on my phone: too much work to type out full sentences and edit and correct typos, so I don't do it. The same goes for writing notes on my Kindle, reading footnotes, looking up words, etc. Remove the barrier of effort to do these things and they become intuitive and easy. At present I need to really need to read a footnote or look up a definition to go through the several clicks to do it. With a touch interface it is one action. Those extra clicks are a needless distraction from reading.

This is precisely why the iPhone made smartphones popular with the general public a couple of years ago - although smartphones before the iPhone were more capable, the iPhone made it easy for more users to easily get to those functions they didn't know were there or didn't know how to get to them.

Internet browsing and PDF reading on the Kindle are atrocious experiences. With touch they could be vastly improved to the point where many people would start to take advantage.

In many situations, owning both it and a touch reader myself, I can see how I'd still prefer it. I can totally get YOU and others not liking it's nav methods, but Kindle's success, the poll results here, and the owners comments are all testament to the fact that many of us do.

The popularity of the Kindle doesn't mean it can't be improved. Touch was not practical until recently for an e-ink screen (I had an old Sony with resistive touch and it was horrendous, though still better than no touch). The price of a Kindle has dropped dramatically to the point where touch is practical and the readability is not compromised.

The 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach is one I can't stand when it comes to technology. There are better ways of doing some things on a reader, and most of those better ways are through touch.

Apple iDevices have more than one button. They have one on the front, several more on the sides. Only rarely used for nav related stuff as I understand, usually sleep and volume.

So similar to Android and Windows Phone/Windows Mobile then. I will add that I find most touch devices (tablets and phones, including my MP3 player) could be vastly improved by adding a few more physical buttons, but I also understand that the general public wants new and shiny things, not perfectly designed things. Today's 'new and shiny' is touch, and you can thank Apple for making 'shiny' a priority over 'functional and well designed'. Unfortunately tech demand is now driven by the masses, not by the early adopters and people who care about getting the best functionality and experience.

Lastly, is your screen name said like "didgeridoo" like the musical instrument, or "DJ Greedo" like the green guy from Star Wars spinning records? Or....?

Like my first two initials (DJ) + the guy from Star Wars who shot first.

p.s. My enthusiasm for the Kindle is only SLIGHTLY diminished by the fact that after typing this whole thing on the freaking little keyboard, the browser just crashed on me and I had to come up to my desktop PC to rewrite it. GRR!

The Kindle really is great at what it does 95% of the time - display a page of text in a beautiful, readable way. But as soon as I want to do something other than read from page to page I find it frustratingly limited.

I believe Bezos's approach is to keep the display quality the main priority, so I think that any changes to the Kindle (whether touch or colour, etc.) will not adversely affect the Kindle's main feature.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

Like my first two initials (DJ) + the guy from Star Wars who shot first.

Nooooooo, that would be djhansolo.

[astra]

Originally Posted by djgreedo

If I have to get to a footnote halfway down the page I have to press the 5-way (or press and hold it) several times...down, then across to the correct work, then click to select. You're telling me that's as elegant as simply touching the link with a fingertip? I can understand if you prefer the clicky way, but to say it's easier boggles my mind. Even if the first word on the page is the one you want to click you are using twice the actions as touching the screen would need.

I suspect ApK was arguing for the sake for arguing.
That is why I bowed out of the discussion with him with

To each its own