Kobo Touch $129

[robko]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Most people don't read that type of material on their ereaders - they read novels; and for that, landscape isn't needed.

I think this is a chicken and egg issue. I know I bought my Kobo originally for ease of carrying around technical/ref info and then discovered I loved reading on it but wasn't as excited about the pdf handling of my reference material (better than having to boot a computer, but more of a pain than I figured it would be). I suspect there are lots of people that do/would use it for reference material. Since it obviously is capable of displaying it landscape (does so with pdf) it should only be a software tweak to make it work for e-pub. I know I'd like it.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Most people don't read that type of material on their ereaders - they read novels; and for that, landscape isn't needed.

Only a small percentage of people are left handed, yet most ereaders are designed to accommodate them as well.
Many people are likely to encounter something in a book, even a novel, that is better served by landscape viewing on a small screen.
The makers chose what to put in and that's that, there is no arguing that point, but to try to argue that audio support is in the same class as landscape viewing in terms of what feature SHOULD be included...I just don't see any argument holding water.

And I'm not sure where you're getting "most people don't read that stuff." There's a huge amout of content with images, tables or in other forms that are well served by wider viewing. Even if we exclude novels, who says people read ONLY novels? E-Reader owners are readers. Readers read various stuff. Even if we read MOSTLY novels, I don't know any reader who patently refuses to read ANY nonfiction, even it maybe at a very high novel/non-novel ratio.

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by Fbone

To be fair Kobo recently posted a $10 million loss and needed a $50 million capital injection.

B&N reported decreased net income despite revenue and gross profit increases.

Financial success in the ereader market is proving to be elusive for many companies.

This claim has been posted before -- that Kobo is in financial distress. This is twisting the actual facts and, in spite of your lead in, it is not fair.

Kobo is a young company in start-up mode and its business plan will call for losses during its aggressive roll-out. In fact, the ability of a young company to attract additional capital is the sign of a very healthy start-up. Kobo is running on a shoestring and has made incredible strides. Next month marks its formal launch in the US market and worldwide in July. The fact that it is now routinely included in discussions of Nook and Sony and Kindle is a laudible achievement. And Kobo is unique in being a pure ereader / ebook play.

Contrast that to B&N and Nook: the company has been for sale since last August and no one stepped up to make an offer; B&N withdrew its for sale sign in April. Then Liberty Media stepped in this month with a friendly buy-out once it was clear there would be no competition. B&N's "elusive" success is in its debt-laden 1340 store chain business; the Nook is prospering but only because B&N is able to finance it with shareholder dividends it stopped paying and using cash flow from the bookstores. And its working: Nook, backed by B&N brand, is attracting customers and is the only reason Liberty Media has any interest in purchasing the company.

There is room for 2 or 3 or perhaps 4 ebook platforms worldwide and, at this point, Kobo certainly appears to be playing a strong, not a weak, hand as was implied.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by MechR

The current Kobo does not do landscape for epubs. Dunno about the Touch.

On that note, image files are auto-fit and -oriented to best fill the screen. (Small images are expanded, and aspect ratio is preserved.) They cannot be zoomed/rotated manually. Don't know about the Touch, but it'd be awesome if it could zoom/pan images just like PDFs.

If you package images in a PDF, then you can zoom/pan them.

[tomsem]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Most people don't read that type of material on their ereaders - they read novels; and for that, landscape isn't needed.

For 'most people' that is true, however if you are someone who needs to use large text, landscape will be much better in terms of having better justification, more pleasing line length, and use of space. Given that the Kobo Touch just has one button, easily accessed in any orientation, restricting it to portait-only seems quite arbitrary.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by ApK

Only a small percentage of people are left handed, yet most ereaders are designed to accommodate them as well.

I'm firmly right-handed and yet I often like to hold my reader in the left hand, keeping the right hand free for other tasks (holding on in the bus, shaking hands, opening doors, you name it)

Many people are likely to encounter something in a book, even a novel, that is better served by landscape viewing on a small screen.

I agree, there's no reason not to let the user chose the screen orientation freely.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ApK

The makers chose what to put in and that's that, there is no arguing that point, but to try to argue that audio support is in the same class as landscape viewing in terms of what feature SHOULD be included...I just don't see any argument holding water.

Your opinion.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by ApK

And I'm not sure where you're getting "most people don't read that stuff." There's a huge amout of content with images, tables or in other forms that are well served by wider viewing. Even if we exclude novels, who says people read ONLY novels? E-Reader owners are readers. Readers read various stuff. Even if we read MOSTLY novels, I don't know any reader who patently refuses to read ANY nonfiction, even it maybe at a very high novel/non-novel ratio.

Use a tablet or a laptop.

The only things I read on my Kindle are novels and such. I don't read magazines, newspapers, journals, etc on it. Also, I don't use the web browser or landscape mode. I know over a dozen people who have ereaders and they all use them the same way I do. Some are non-tech types and others are very tech oriented.

Those that are tech oriented do as I do and fit the function to the device; instead of forcing the device to do a function it wasn't properly implemented for. If I want to get all technical, I'll use my tablet or netbook. B&W just won't cut it.

Instead of constantly wishing for technical features that manufacturers refuse to implement in low-end readers, why don't people petition the makers to produce high-end, feature laden, large display, expensive readers instead?

[Cyberman tM]

Disclaimer: I'm somewhat peeved right now - partially because of this posting, partially because I just managed to lose my previous reply. Damn.
I'll try to remain civil. Don't be too offended if I fail.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Use a tablet or a laptop.

Why?
We're still talking about reading a book, yes?
Not playing Quake 4 or doing tax papers.

The only things I read on my Kindle are novels and such. I don't read magazines, newspapers, journals, etc on it. Also, I don't use the web browser or landscape mode.
I know over a dozen people who have ereaders and they all use them the same way I do. Some are non-tech types and others are very tech oriented.

Good for you.
However, neither you, nor your friends - or me or anyone else actually - are the center of the universe or the template for all things to come.
People are different and might use devices in a different way.

Those that are tech oriented do as I do and fit the function to the device; instead of forcing the device to do a function it wasn't properly implemented for. If I want to get all technical, I'll use my tablet or netbook. B&W just won't cut it.

So, reading a book in landscape or playing audio is "getting all technical"?
Cool.
So what would using an application on a notebook be? Getting Hyper-technical?

Instead of constantly wishing for technical features that manufacturers refuse to implement in low-end readers, why don't people petition the makers to produce high-end, feature laden, large display, expensive readers instead?

I see.
So we should accept whatever scraps the manufacturers throw in our direction and not even think about suggesting improvements? Even if these improvements fall into the same category as the sole reason these devices exist - namely READING?

What exactly would be "high-end, feature laden" about having landscape mode anyway?

I'd accept playing audio as higher-end, although even that is kind of a stretch nowadays, IMO (prefabricated chips and all that).

By your logic, why do we have the ability to change font size? Do we really need that? Same about using different fonts. I never change fonts, so it's not necessary. Remove it, I say!
Just convert the book into a slideshow, it's all we need.

But seriously, I fail to see why landscape and a few other features would be such a huge problem - we're not talking about a glorified abacus here, these things should have power enough to do so much more than they currently can.

(I realize of course that this means more work at the software. Which will cost. But these devices by definition don't exist in a vaccum. They can get updates.)

[MechR]

Originally Posted by tomsem

If you package images in a PDF, then you can zoom/pan them.

Thanks, but I'll pass. A few too many hurdles there.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Good for you.
However, neither you, nor your friends - or me or anyone else actually - are the center of the universe or the template for all things to come.
People are different and might use devices in a different way.

But we're the majority of users for these low-end ereaders. That's what manufacturers cater to.

I have no problem with specialty features; but don't expect to find them in low-end ereaders.

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Your opinion.

What else? Still, functions that can easily be implemented as a software update play in a different league than those that necessitate supporting hardware.

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

The only things I read on my Kindle are novels and such.

Whatever floats your boat.

Those that are tech oriented do as I do and fit the function to the device; instead of forcing the device to do a function it wasn't properly implemented for. If I want to get all technical, I'll use my tablet or netbook. B&W just won't cut it.

Please don't tell people how to "properly" use their devices. I, too, read mainly novels on my reader, but I have been known to use the PDF viewer (in landscape mode, go figure) for the occasional documentation, reference material, what have you. I'm certainly glad I have that option.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

But seriously, I fail to see why landscape and a few other features would be such a huge problem - we're not talking about a glorified abacus here, these things should have power enough to do so much more than they currently can.

Get a Kindle; it's full of landscape. In fact, you can have my landscape; it's going to waste.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

Please don't tell people how to "properly" use their devices. I, too, read mainly novels on my reader, but I have been known to use the PDF viewer (in landscape mode, go figure) for the occasional documentation, reference material, what have you. I'm certainly glad I have that option.

Your point being? It's obvious your device had that capability. But when they don't...

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by kiwipippa

Absolutely - I'm left handed so always hold my kobo in my left hand and manage to push the button with my left thumb. I can't see that being easy with a touch - but I hope I'm wrong.

Have to have a free hand for that cuppa or glass of wine (or sleeping child in your case, solicitous)

I'm not left-handed but usually hold my Sony 950 with my left hand. I have found it easy to swipe using my left thumb to get to the next page. The Sony 950 uses the IR touchscreen that Kobo will use, so I would expect the Kobo to work the same way. A slight swiping up and to the left with the left thumb changes the page to the next page; a slight swiping down and to the right moves to the previous page. My experience with the Sony 950 touchscreen convinces me that I would never go back to the button method of my Sony 505. I don't mean to imply that I never use the < and > page turn buttons on my 950, but I so rarely use them that it may as well be never.