iFlow reader another casualty thanks to the Agency 5 and Apple

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by toddos

Other readers (Bluefire) have gotten around this by not selling books in-app but redirecting to web sites for sales (Bluefire uses affiliate codes with third-party bookstores)

That is exactly what Amazon does and so far it has been described as being forbidden.
Until Apple changes its mind (good luck waiting for that) *any* form of sale triggers the poison-pill clause; direct, indirect, or linked. The only known-good approaches are to cave or take out all sales mechanisms from the app.

[toddos]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That is exactly what Amazon does and so far it has been described as being forbidden.
Until Apple changes its mind (good luck waiting for that) *any* form of sale triggers the poison-pill clause; direct, indirect, or linked. The only known-good approaches are to cave or take out all sales mechanisms from the app.

Do you have a link? How does Apple justify that one? Kindle doesn't sell anything in-app. They have a link to a web site, you purchase stuff on that web site through the browser, and then the app pings the server and downloads your book.

I'll admit that I haven't read Apple's 30% royalty rules for what does or does not qualify, but I don't see how they could ask for 30% of purchases on a web site that just happened to be linked from an app. Does that mean if I wrote an app that is nothing but a link to Amazon's Kindle mobile site I would have to pay Apple 30%?

Purchasing in the app directly pretty clearly violates their requirement (they want you to use iTunes in-app purchasing for that), but how could opening a website in the standard Safari browser be verboten?

Edit: Also, Amazon is clearly not leaving iOS. They keep updating Kindle, and Apple keeps approving it. I seriously doubt Amazon is paying Apple 30% of every Kindle book sold. Maybe the moral of the story is that you have to be Amazon in order to play in Apple's ebook space, but I suspect it's more likely that the redirect-to-website method is a valid approach. Same thing with Bluefire, Nook, etc.

[jgaiser]

Well, considering I've *never* bought anything from the Apple iBooks store and have no intention of *ever* buying anything in the future, their actions means a loss of revenue, no matter how small. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by =X=

How do you setup your iPod w/o requiring a credit card?

I've never purchased an app either.

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht2534

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by =X=

How do you setup your iPod w/o requiring a credit card?

Don't remember; but I did. Before posting that, I went into my iTunes account:

Payment Information: No credit card on file.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by =X=

How do you setup your iPod w/o requiring a credit card?

Like Tubemonkey, I don't remember. The current method wasn't it because when I opened my account there was no app store.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by toddos

Do you have a link?

Its been disccused ad-nauseum 'round these parts for three months:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...54&postcount=1

The first "clarification" made it sound even worse, as they said that apps that accessed externally acquired content *had* to offer a buy-through-apple feature.
More recently they seem to have backtracked to simply forbidding any kind of app-based sales trick without an apple in-app feature.

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...ll/#more-18864

Unlike iFlow reader, Amazon's app isn't the only way their customers buy kindle books so taking out all links from the app is no hardship to *them*. But the really smart move by Amazon is wait to get their App bounced first. Some animals are more equal, after all...

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

Like Tubemonkey, I don't remember. The current method wasn't it because when I opened my account there was no app store.

There was an app store when I opened my account, but I know I didn't do it by that method also.

Steve will never get content dollars from me

[Dopedangel]

Their are 2 Apple rules\conditions that combine to stop other sellers. Most of you saying that iflow should sell through the web as a workaround it is not possible as
As any app that gives access to paid content is required to also sell using apple store. And the price has to be the same so the developer is screwed as why would anyone want to visit the website when they purchase from inside the app when its the same price.

[tomsem]

If I remember correctly (no way to check it now) iFlow Reader let you browse for books in-app, but the Buy button took you to their web site to purchase. And you could purchase books on their web site. So I'm not clear on why they fell afoul of the 30%-to-Apple rule, and others have not (at least not yet). It seems rather a technical distinction, and one BeamItUp could have addressed by launching the browser to shop in their store, rather than waiting until the last click to do so. I assume they must have determined that making such a change was not going to propitiate Apple.

[toddos]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Its been disccused ad-nauseum 'round these parts for three months:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...54&postcount=1

The first "clarification" made it sound even worse, as they said that apps that accessed externally acquired content *had* to offer a buy-through-apple feature.
More recently they seem to have backtracked to simply forbidding any kind of app-based sales trick without an apple in-app feature.

http://www.the-digital-reader.com/20...ll/#more-18864

Unlike iFlow reader, Amazon's app isn't the only way their customers buy kindle books so taking out all links from the app is no hardship to *them*. But the really smart move by Amazon is wait to get their App bounced first. Some animals are more equal, after all...

Thanks for the links. As best I can tell, none of the big sellers (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo) have commented at all, nor pulled their apps, and at least Amazon is actively updating the Kindle app frequently. The iFlow CEO guy knee-jerked and preemptively killed his own app. No other ebook apps have been killed, smaller readers like BlueFire are still around (though perhaps this might be why they've had no updates in ~3 months), and Apple's even changed the rules several times. Until Apple starts rejecting ebook apps or kicking them out of the app store, this is still premature.

As well, there are still ways around. If you can't sell books in-app and you can't have a link, have a string and instruct users to copy&paste (hey, a reason for that functionality to exist!). Or don't sell books yourself. If you're company A and you link to company B to sell a book with an affiliate fee, that's not the same thing as company A selling a book. Or sue.

Apple is probably in the wrong here, but there's no point in prematurely screwing yourself like iFlow did. When this came down the pipes, they should've shut up and started working on alternatives (porting to Android, if nothing else). Then when Apple finally dropped the ban hammer on them, they'd be ready to say, "Screw you, Apple, we're going to Android/Windows Phone/Blackberry where we're actually wanted."

[Dylrob]

I have a sick feeling that this is what Apple planned all along when they pushed the agency model with the publishers.

[Sil_liS]

Originally Posted by toddos

As best I can tell, none of the big sellers (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo) have commented at all, nor pulled their apps, and at least Amazon is actively updating the Kindle app frequently. The iFlow CEO guy knee-jerked and preemptively killed his own app. No other ebook apps have been killed, smaller readers like BlueFire are still around (though perhaps this might be why they've had no updates in ~3 months), and Apple's even changed the rules several times. Until Apple starts rejecting ebook apps or kicking them out of the app store, this is still premature..

Or it could be from an entire different reason. The problem is only related to the books that are on the agency model. For any other books, they can still make money. And if Amazon makes the sale, even if they don't make a profit, they still get the customer. If the whole thing will die and people can't read kindle books on their iPad anymore, they might consider buying a kindle if the alternative is buying all their books again from the iBook store.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Sil_liS

Or it could be from an entire different reason. The problem is only related to the books that are on the agency model. For any other books, they can still make money.

Why? That must depend on the discount and what the have to sell it for to sell anything. If the discount only is 30% then they will make no money at all.

[EowynCarter]

Originally Posted by toddos

Thanks for the links. As best I can tell, none of the big sellers (Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Kobo) have commented at all, nor pulled their apps, and at least Amazon is actively updating the Kindle app frequently. The iFlow CEO guy knee-jerked and preemptively killed his own app. No other ebook apps have been killed, smaller readers like BlueFire are still around (though perhaps this might be why they've had no updates in ~3 months), and Apple's even changed the rules several times. Until Apple starts rejecting ebook apps or kicking them out of the app store, this is still premature.

As well, there are still ways around. If you can't sell books in-app and you can't have a link, have a string and instruct users to copy&paste (hey, a reason for that functionality to exist!). Or don't sell books yourself. If you're company A and you link to company B to sell a book with an affiliate fee, that's not the same thing as company A selling a book. Or sue.

Apple is probably in the wrong here, but there's no point in prematurely screwing yourself like iFlow did. When this came down the pipes, they should've shut up and started working on alternatives (porting to Android, if nothing else). Then when Apple finally dropped the ban hammer on them, they'd be ready to say, "Screw you, Apple, we're going to Android/Windows Phone/Blackberry where we're actually wanted."

Well, maybe they ditched the iPhone app to concentrate on new, and potentially more profitable, stuff.