Let's pay authors directly

[leebase]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

What's left to discuss, then? All of those things are integral to any meaningful discussion of a "Try Before You Buy" system.

It is the PRODUCER who gets to decide whether he wants to offer his product on a "try before you buy" basis.

If you must "steal before you buy" -- then AT LEAST go out and BUY the product afterward.

Lee

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by leebase

It is the PRODUCER who gets to decide whether he wants to offer his product on a "try before you buy" basis.

If you must "steal before you buy" -- then AT LEAST go out and BUY the product afterward.

I agree completely. I hope there wasn't anything in my post that suggested I was in favor of theft followed by a small donation to clear the conscience. I'm perfectly fine with paying for something upfront without having a 100% guarantee that I'm going to like it.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by leebase

I find it no more noble to "only steal from publishers" than to "only steal from the author". The editor deserves to get paid for their work. As do the graphic artists, the receptionist, the salesperson, marketing, accounting and the mailroom workers.


Lee

I'm not sure what you mean about stealing from anyone, but all of those people get paid when they do their work, regardless of how many or how few people read the book for free (or indeed how many people pay to read it).

[Worldwalker]

They get paid in the short term despite the success, or lack thereof, of the book, but whether they have a job in the long term depends on the success of that book and any others published by the entity that is paying them. If only three people pay for the book, whether it's read by two people or two billion people, and no matter how many of those people send money to the author, then there's no money for the company to keep paying them. So even if the author makes a million dollars from his tip jar, the poor slob in the mailroom is out of a job.

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

They get paid in the short term despite the success, or lack thereof, of the book, but whether they have a job in the long term depends on the success of that book and any others published by the entity that is paying them. If only three people pay for the book, whether it's read by two people or two billion people, and no matter how many of those people send money to the author, then there's no money for the company to keep paying them. So even if the author makes a million dollars from his tip jar, the poor slob in the mailroom is out of a job.

Well, now we're wandering onto familiar ground the OP asked us to avoid, but if the executives and board of directors respond to the market in such a way that consumers turn to piracy en masse, then the poor slob's lost job is no more nor less than the corrective influence of black markets upon an intractable industry.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by taosaur

Well, now we're wandering onto familiar ground the OP asked us to avoid, but if the executives and board of directors respond to the market in such a way that consumers turn to piracy en masse, then the poor slob's lost job is no more nor less than the corrective influence of black markets upon an intractable industry.

But why feel like the author is due compensation and not the mailroom boy, the administrative assistant, the fact checker, the editor, the gaphic artist, the salesperson, the marketing staff and everyone else involved?

If you have a real disdain for "the man" or "corporate greed" or whatever -- then read any of the hundreds of thousands of free books and eschew the products of the "evil corporations".

Or just own up to being a thief and hope that there are enough honest people willing to support the products you love to steal.

Lee

[taosaur]

Hmm, I'll just re-examine my post:

Originally Posted by taosaur

Well, now we're wandering onto familiar ground the OP asked us to avoid, but if the executives and board of directors respond to the market in such a way that consumers turn to piracy en masse, then the poor slob's lost job is no more nor less than the corrective influence of black markets upon an intractable industry.

And now what you read into it:

Originally Posted by leebase

But why feel like the author is due compensation and not the mailroom boy, the administrative assistant, the fact checker, the editor, the gaphic artist, the salesperson, the marketing staff and everyone else involved?

If you have a real disdain for "the man" or "corporate greed" or whatever -- then read any of the hundreds of thousands of free books and eschew the products of the "evil corporations".

Or just own up to being a thief and hope that there are enough honest people willing to support the products you love to steal.

Lee

I would think you'd be able to see better from up on that high horse.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by taosaur

Well, now we're wandering onto familiar ground the OP asked us to avoid, but if the executives and board of directors respond to the market in such a way that consumers turn to piracy en masse, then the poor slob's lost job is no more nor less than the corrective influence of black markets upon an intractable industry.

In an ebook world, would a mailroom slob keep their job anyway? Publishers don't even seem to employ proof readers for ebooks, so it's unlikely they would keep all their staff from the analogue world, even if they did manage to entice readers back from the indies.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by taosaur

I would think you'd be able to see better from up on that high horse.

View's fantastic

Lee

[taosaur]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

In an ebook world, would a mailroom slob keep their job anyway? Publishers don't even seem to employ proof readers for ebooks, so it's unlikely they would keep all their staff from the analogue world, even if they did manage to entice readers back from the indies.

If we're going to nitpick examples, most of the mail-slobs got the axe with the advent of the Crackberry.

[Giggleton]

Just reimagine business, ebook creation can be the result of as many people as you want it to be, all taking an agreed upon cut of revenue from sales/donations.

On the one hand we see the rise of small independent publishers, on the other hand we see the massive infrastructure required to support them, it definitely is a conundrum.

[DavidKitson]

I am an author who is presently trying the "Donation" method for a self-published book. Where I can, I make it available at no upfront cost. (Everywhere but Amazon )

To date, I have moved several thousand copies of this book and so far all reviews are up in the 4 to 5 stars region ( Barnes and Noble - all 5-star reviews, Rating 4-5. Smashwords, rating 4.75 )

To date, total donations recieved through paypal are $14. Plus a coffee and a few offers of help in lieu of payment.

That's less than a 1% donation return even if I do take non-monetary offers into account, however there are a few important things to consider. Firstly, I make it clear that donations are voluntary.

Also, some people have commented on how incredibly difficult it is to make a donation through paypal. It's simply not convenient to most readers to make a donation.

Given that the conversation about the book on MobileRead is going well and everyone seems to enjoy it, I doubt that the lack of donations is due to people disliking the book. On the contrary, my reviews are full of comments from readers who were hooked from page one and some read the entire book in a single sitting.

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=113810

So based on the feedback I get, I think it really is a convenience issue. It takes quite an effort to pay for a book after you've read it and by then the question is why?

Anyway, you're all welcome to read it and donate, or otherwise not.
http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/34627
(Turing Evolved)

As for me? Would I do it again? I have no regrets. I am glad to have published the way I did.

And yes, I would do it again and as someone who has taken this sole method for putting their book out, I support this and am happy to answer questions about it.

Regards
David Kitson

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

I am an author who is presently trying the "Donation" method for a self-published book. Where I can, I make it available at no upfront cost. (Everywhere but Amazon )

What are your Amazon sales like? Do you think they have been affected by having it free everywhere else?

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by DavidKitson

I am an author who is presently trying the "Donation" method for a self-published book. Where I can, I make it available at no upfront cost. (Everywhere but Amazon )

To date, I have moved several thousand copies of this book and so far all reviews are up in the 4 to 5 stars region ( Barnes and Noble - all 5-star reviews, Rating 4-5. Smashwords, rating 4.75 )

To date, total donations recieved through paypal are $14. Plus a coffee and a few offers of help in lieu of payment.

That's less than a 1% donation return even if I do take non-monetary offers into account, however there are a few important things to consider. Firstly, I make it clear that donations are voluntary.

Also, some people have commented on how incredibly difficult it is to make a donation through paypal. It's simply not convenient to most readers to make a donation.

And yes, I would do it again and as someone who has taken this sole method for putting their book out, I support this and am happy to answer questions about it.

Regards
David Kitson

A 1% conversion rate is good. I agree with you that paypal donations can be cumbersome, do the links even work through the Kindle, I must admit to not testing this out, I just assumed it was blocked somehow, but for this to work IT MUST WORK THROUGH THE EREADER ITSELF.

[DavidKitson]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

What are your Amazon sales like? Do you think they have been affected by having it free everywhere else?

Not really. I actually hope people will look elsewhere and find the book for free. If they pay, then I certainly don't expect them to donate. It's frustrating that Smashwords and Amazon don't have their act together yet.

Sales on Amazon BTW: 1 unit. Confirmed downloads elsewhere: >1000 units on Smashwords alone.

I can't get numbers from Barnes and Noble, but the reviews previously outstripped the reviews on Smashwords by 12:1. I'm assuming I have more downloads on B&N that I can't account for.

And I know I'm getting downloads through Apple and other distribution channels.

Ironically, I've been told many times that because the book is free, it will probably hurt sales, but then the Amazon version is recent so perhaps there's not enough time for others to pick it up yet.

Giggleton:
1% isn't too bad at all and I am happy with that, but it's a low 1% at that. You are right. The technology is not yet at the point where I can use it to support the sales. Since it doesn't benefit the ebook manufacturers, I don't know if they'd support it either. I suppose it would benefit them if they did, at least a little.

I am seriously thinking of relisting it on Smashwords as a "Special Edition" with a .99 charge so people can buy the "paid" version to make a simple donation.

But I don't plan on taking the free version offline. In any event, it's pretty widely distributed and redistributed by the free book sites and the license with the book allows non-commercial redistribution.

Regards
David