The Virtue of High Priced Books

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by leebase

How "fair" is it to demand someone work for those unwilling or unable to pay them for their work?

Lee

I'm not really convinced you can force someone to write a book against their will.

But my question was really why artificially limit the potential number of readers in this way? I can see how it would benefit Ebay or Amazon sellers who are quick enough to get in on the act, but even when they have sold those on to people who want to read them there is still a hard limit to the number of readers you can attract.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by leebase

The use case where someone creates and ebook then takes it off the market after a certain number are sold is an "out layer", certainly not the norm.

The "scarcity" that comes from pricing a book higher than "Billy" wants to or can pay for it is actually a virtue. Billy is no more harmed by a book being priced beyond his reach than the book not existing in the first place.

The virtue comes from the incentive to create books. The more money generated, the more revenue. The more revenue, the more incentive.

Lee

Hmm.... So if I creat a book and charge $1,000,000 for it, I'm even more virtuios than if I charged a mere $100?

[pholy]

I think you only get the 'virtue' after you find somebody to pay you the $1,000,000.00...

and the cheque doesn't bounce!

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by leebase

On the contrary -- Billy need only wait awhile while those who CAN and CHOOSE to pay the "high new book price" to do so and the books get created. And he can pick up a used copy, borrow from a friend, check the book out from a library, etc.

If, of course, the book exists in print. If the book is only released as an ebook, Billy just has to hope his local library has an ebook department, decides to buy it, and in some cases, if Billy's one of the first 26 people to check it out.

The lack of legit loaning/resale of ebooks is working toward re-establishing access to books as something for the upper classes, or at least removing access from the most impoverished classes of people. The first sacrifice in the ebook-vs-paper publishing wars will be mmpb's--and suddenly, Billy will have a lot fewer chances to find a copy at a yard sale for fifty cents.

I don't mind waiting for lower-priced secondhand books, but I'm baffled that authors & publishers seem to think this is a *good* thing for them. They don't get royalties on those sales. Why not release $5 ebooks instead of telling me to read something they don't get paid for?

I think a lot of the price debates is big publishers not realizing how many book readers *never* paid full price for books, and would be happy to by ebooks at the prices they'd been paying for paper--which had no connection to the prices on the cover.

For specific nonfic that directly suits my interests, I'll pay quite a bit for an ebook version. For leisure-reading fiction, though, I consider all ebooks (within genres I enjoy, by authors I like) more-or-less fungible ... I can always find something else that I'll enjoy reading just as much. And no amount of essays, or ranting, or explaining about the costs of the industry, are going to convince me that I should be paying more for my reading entertainment. I have a budget; I want the best possible value for that budget.

I'm not saying "I'll never again pay more than $6 for a fiction ebook." I am saying that I'd need a very good reason for it, something stronger than "ooh, you're gonna love this book." Because I know I can get books I'm gonna love for $6.

[covingtoncat73]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

If, of course, the book exists in print. If the book is only released as an ebook, Billy just has to hope his local library has an ebook department, decides to buy it, and in some cases, if Billy's one of the first 26 people to check it out.

The lack of legit loaning/resale of ebooks is working toward re-establishing access to books as something for the upper classes, or at least removing access from the most impoverished classes of people. The first sacrifice in the ebook-vs-paper publishing wars will be mmpb's--and suddenly, Billy will have a lot fewer chances to find a copy at a yard sale for fifty cents.

I don't mind waiting for lower-priced secondhand books, but I'm baffled that authors & publishers seem to think this is a *good* thing for them. They don't get royalties on those sales. Why not release $5 ebooks instead of telling me to read something they don't get paid for?

I think a lot of the price debates is big publishers not realizing how many book readers *never* paid full price for books, and would be happy to by ebooks at the prices they'd been paying for paper--which had no connection to the prices on the cover.

For specific nonfic that directly suits my interests, I'll pay quite a bit for an ebook version. For leisure-reading fiction, though, I consider all ebooks (within genres I enjoy, by authors I like) more-or-less fungible ... I can always find something else that I'll enjoy reading just as much. And no amount of essays, or ranting, or explaining about the costs of the industry, are going to convince me that I should be paying more for my reading entertainment. I have a budget; I want the best possible value for that budget.

I'm not saying "I'll never again pay more than $6 for a fiction ebook." I am saying that I'd need a very good reason for it, something stronger than "ooh, you're gonna love this book." Because I know I can get books I'm gonna love for $6.

Oh, that is very well said! My local library does have a good eBook department and I got the cheapest available eReader (a Kobo WiFi 50% off at a closing Borders plus I had a gift certificate). Still, the cost for entry to eReading was not the $50 I paid for my reader. You really need your own computer and Internet connection w/ WiFi, so we are talking the monthly Internet connection fee as well as the cost of the computer, a broadband modem, and a WiFi router, not just the cost of the eReader and any eBooks you purchase. This is outside the range of a lot of people.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by covingtoncat73

Oh, that is very well said! My local library does have a good eBook department and I got the cheapest available eReader (a Kobo WiFi 50% off at a closing Borders plus I had a gift certificate). Still, the cost for entry to eReading was not the $50 I paid for my reader. You really need your own computer and Internet connection w/ WiFi, so we are talking the monthly Internet connection fee as well as the cost of the computer, a broadband modem, and a WiFi router, not just the cost of the eReader and any eBooks you purchase. This is outside the range of a lot of people.

You don't need wifi. I got wifi this month for the first time; I've been active online for more than 10 years. (However, access to non-wifi internet hard to find except in very rural areas.)

But otherwise--yes, ebooks have a steep initial investment if you haven't already covered it in other parts of your life. They claim you can use a Kindle without a computer--but they lie; you need an email account to set up all the features. You can't activate the Kindle's web service without setting things up on a computer.

[carld]

That's a lot of IF's in your original post leebase. I expect that such situations are very rarely, if ever, the cause of high book prices. I think the reality is just what a lot of us suppose it is, publishers trying to wring every dollar they can out of an outdated pricing model while they still can.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The lack of legit loaning/resale of ebooks is working toward re-establishing access to books as something for the upper classes, or at least removing access from the most impoverished classes of people.

Yes-- it is a form of "let them eat cakeism."

I expect things to turn out about as well for publishers as they did for Marie Antoinette. And the publishers can whine about the unfairness of it all the whole time-- it won't save their heads.

[leebase]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I'm not really convinced you can force someone to write a book against their will.

You can take for free their work that they offer only for sale.

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

But my question was really why artificially limit the potential number of readers in this way? I can see how it would benefit Ebay or Amazon sellers who are quick enough to get in on the act, but even when they have sold those on to people who want to read them there is still a hard limit to the number of readers you can attract.

Why prevent someone from taking for free what you offer for pay? So that folks will PAY instead of not paying.

Lee

[leebase]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Hmm.... So if I creat a book and charge $1,000,000 for it, I'm even more virtuios than if I charged a mere $100?

If you can get people to buy it at a million bucks, sure. What a great thing you will have done for the people in demonstrating now lucrative writing books is. Lots of people will join in hoping they too can sell books for a million bucks each.

Lee

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by leebase

You can take for free their work that they offer only for sale.



Why prevent someone from taking for free what you offer for pay? So that folks will PAY instead of not paying.

Lee

No they won't, they will download something else instead. Or if you somehow managed to close down all the pirate sources they would go back to buying second hand paperbacks from jumble sales like they did pre-internet.

And while they are doing that you would be missing out on all the money you could be making from the people who read their positive reviews and/or recommendations. Not to mention the money from people who like you enough to want to read your next book as soon as it is released.

[apbschmitz]

As a guy who has written a couple traditionally published novels, I'm hopeful about the moment. Back in the day, the cover price of my book was $20 and I got $1.70 after everybody took their cut. I was never that happy to be asking my friends to buy my book at $20, which is maybe not a king's ransom but a bit much to ask of people — especially those who probably don't share my taste in fiction in the first place.

But at $2.99 or $3.99 — most of my friends blow that on a cup of coffee every day. It's cheaper than a beer in a bar. And if they don't want to get even that heavily invested, they can fake it by downloading the sample and reading a few pages of that.

As for little Billy, above, I feel some concern that he won't be able to tech-up sufficiently to have the equipment to download the $2.99 e-novel. But given how far the price has dropped for a Kindle, how long will it be before they give them away in a box of cracker-jacks, just so you can pay for the content? I'm more concerned that in the landslide of available novels, no one will be able to navigate to the things that would truly interest them, if only they knew.

[JKenP]

Authors get about a buck for that $20 book you love to buy. The best sellers (Top 100) at Amazon are .99 books that have a huge, excited followings.

Concerning e-books, pricing is ridiculous and arbitrary. Every book today that goes to press is an e-book. Yet, many publishers charge the same as the paper version and in some cases more -- even much more.

I have thousand of books. Many have been loaned or exchanged over the years. Others were gifted. So, you give the same $'s or more for the e-book that comes with DRM and like it? Good lad, send me you email address so I can share some of my stock pick at a high price. Remember, you always get what you pay for.

[cfrizz]

Or in other words, they are working towards really having pirating taking off to the moon!

They can try as much as they want to stuff the genie back in the bottle, but technology is moving too fast.

Billy will have access to computers in school, and will learn how to circumvent drm at some point or will know someone who can do it for him.

And those of us in the middle class will not let this kind of BS stand!

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

If, of course, the book exists in print. If the book is only released as an ebook, Billy just has to hope his local library has an ebook department, decides to buy it, and in some cases, if Billy's one of the first 26 people to check it out.

The lack of legit loaning/resale of ebooks is working toward re-establishing access to books as something for the upper classes, or at least removing access from the most impoverished classes of people.

[Leyor]

I'm not sure I understand the intent of the original post, there might be a language barrier thing here. But just so I understand it.

The OP's premise is: Pricing books as high as possible is good. It both rewards the author and encourages other authors, thus ensuring that those of us who can afford it has even more reading material.

Is that correct?

Assuming that it is, my argument is that promoting higher prices on book based on those reason are hogwash. High prices on books is not in anyones except the publishers/distributors interest due to the following reasons:

As much as some of us wish it, we're not authors or publishers (well most of us atleast), we're consumers. The lower the price is, the better, lower prices means we can either afford more books, or more other things.

High prices limits who the audience is, that means that while the author might prosper from limiting who his books actually reach, it hurts us as a group. Even if some of us can be smug about it not individually affecting us, it still affect us as a group.

There's currently no glut of authors. We have alot of good authors, who just can't get proper exposure. I'd argue that it's a pretty weak argument that we have to pay more money, to get more authors most of us won't ever get to read. And who alot of might never read, because the prices are too high

There's also no guaranteed correlation between the price a consumer pays and the profit the original author sees. Just because something costs more, doesn't mean the author profits more.