Let's pay authors directly

PuxyYunm · 05-08-2011, 01:06 PM

There are several methods of obtaining books that leave the author uncompensated such as stealing them (including illegal downloads), borrowing from friends or libraries, and buying them second-hand.

I have no comment about any of the above and I certainly don't want to get mired in the tedious debates of right vs. wrong, moral vs. immoral, legal vs. illegal and so forth.

But if one reads and enjoys a book obtained without any channel of recompense between the reader himself and the author, it would be nice to be able to make some sort of direct compensation to the author.

Would authors who made a PayPal account available for donations, for instance, be likely to be compensated by readers who have come across their books through "non-standard" channels?

Are there other kinds of compensation authors would welcome from those who can't afford the sometimes appalling prices charged for new books and who must choose between "alternate" sources or not reading the author at all?

I'd welcome the opportunity to put something directly in the author's pocket, even if it were just a chance to thank him personally.

mr ploppy · 05-08-2011, 01:13 PM

I forget who it was now, but one writer said that those sort of donations don't do them any good. What they need is legitimate sales so that the publisher (if they are using one) knows there is a demand for that writer.

DiapDealer · 05-08-2011, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuxyYunm

I have no comment about any of the above and I certainly don't want to get mired in the tedious debates of right vs. wrong, moral vs. immoral, legal vs. illegal and so forth.

What's left to discuss, then? All of those things are integral to any meaningful discussion of a "Try Before You Buy" system.

I can see you and Giggleton getting along swimmingly, though.

PuxyYunm · 05-08-2011, 01:26 PM

Naturally, that makes sense, and I certainly don't mean to suggest such a mechanism as a replacement for the normal market

However, as has been beaten to a bloody pulp in other threads, ebooks can be obtained without payment. I suspect there are those who can't purchase new copies, but who would like to give the author something. There won't be a legitimate sale in any case, but there could be something passed between reader and writer.

DArenson · 05-08-2011, 01:38 PM

Reading books for free -- by borrowing them, stealing them, or reading them used -- is not necessary bad for authors. Most of these readers wouldn't buy a copy anyway. But they'll read the book for free, and if they like it, they'll tell their friends. Maybe they'll buy the author's next book. It gets the word out and, in the long term, can possibly help the author.

Now, I'm not saying we should all head over to torrent websites now, and start downloading pirated ebooks. Obviously, that's still illegal, and still a no no. But if you DID read the book for free, tell your friends. Blog about it. Leave a review. That's the best way to help the author, in my opinion.

CWatkinsNash · 05-08-2011, 01:42 PM

As DD said, you can't really discuss the options without touching on the things you do not wish to discuss. I don't know where you are coming from, morally or otherwise, but when I see such a suggestion it usually comes across as a way to legitimize piracy.

There are already authors who are happy to accept donations. There are others who prefer to be paid by actually selling books in the standard fashion. I prefer to respect their wishes in that regard.

PuxyYunm · 05-08-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CWatkinsNash

As DD said, you can't really discuss the options without touching on the things you do not wish to discuss. I don't know where you are coming from, morally or otherwise, but when I see such a suggestion it usually comes across as a way to legitimize piracy.

I don't quite see how it would legitimize piracy since the intent is to compensate the author; I see piracy as trying to get something for nothing. Note that my suggestion also includes books that have been borrowed.

As for "what I do not wish to discuss", I mean discuss here. At present, I'm interested in the implicit contract between an author and his reader and in finding ways to expand what the author receives. This hardly fits the concept of piracy.

Also, I'm suggesting this as an option for authors to provide, or not.

Whether intended or not, I think DArenson grasped what I was reaching for: the concept of exchange with an author. Recommending books clearly can be one form, as can blogging about a book. Eric Flint has discussed this well at Baen Books where they offered a free copy of "1632" which I read and subsequently recommended to friends who have since bought other titles by him.

Quote:

There are already authors who are happy to accept donations. There are others who prefer to be paid by actually selling books in the standard fashion. I prefer to respect their wishes in that regard.

An excellent viewpoint, and those who can not pay full price should simply be left by the wayside, at the discretion of the author.

Tome Keeper · 05-08-2011, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I forget who it was now, but one writer said that those sort of donations don't do them any good. What they need is legitimate sales so that the publisher (if they are using one) knows there is a demand for that writer.

This is part of it, and also a significant number of those who 'acquire' books through these other channels just don't want to pay, so a donation method wouldn't get much use. I also think a lot of people don't think of giving anything to the author at all, e.g. when most people buy a second hand book I don't think it crosses their mind that no money is going to the author.

Can I just add that authors do get money for library books, just not from the person reading it directly.

PuxyYunm · 05-08-2011, 02:29 PM

Quote:

I also think a lot of people don't think of giving anything to the author at all, e.g. when most people buy a second hand book I don't think it crosses their mind that no money is going to the author.

Sad, but true.

Quote:

Can I just add that authors do get money for library books, just not from the person reading it directly.

Do you know if this is also true in the U.S. and Canada?

Worldwalker · 05-08-2011, 02:38 PM

Why should people buying a used book give money to the author? He already got paid once!

If I buy a used car, I don't send money off to Detroit. If I buy a used bookshelf, I don't hunt up the original manufacturer and send them a check. Why should I pay the author again for his book and not the manufacturer of the shelf I put it on or the car I brought it home in?

Once you sell something, whether it's a car or a bookshelf or a book, you've sold it; there's no obligation on anyone's part to pay you again every time it changes hands.

The same is true of lending; if you borrow my car, you don't have to pay the manufacturer, either. I can even rent out my car without having to pay anyone off.

The idea of paying every time you read a book, whether it's bought, borrowed, used, whatever, is another step closer to "one book, one set of eyes, one time" which is, in turn, another step in the decline of reading.

Tome Keeper · 05-08-2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuxyYunm

Sad, but true.

Do you know if this is also true in the U.S. and Canada?

Well the library doesn't get the books for free, they pay for a copy of the book (unless it's donated by a patron/author) and lend it out to you and me. So the author will get paid for a copy of the book, just not for the additional people reading it.

CRussel · 05-08-2011, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuxyYunm

Quote:

Can I just add that authors do get money for library books, just not from the person reading it directly.

Do you know if this is also true in the U.S. and Canada?

Yes, it's true everywhere. The library BUYS the copy they loan.

Tome Keeper · 05-08-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Why should people buying a used book give money to the author? He already got paid once!

For me it depends on if the author is indie or not. If the author is indie and I have brought a used copy and liked the work, I am sometimes inclined to buy a copy from the author directly to additionally support them.

CWatkinsNash · 05-08-2011, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PuxyYunm

I don't quite see how it would legitimize piracy since the intent is to compensate the author; I see piracy as trying to get something for nothing. Note that my suggestion also includes books that have been borrowed.

Thank you for clarifying your position. You'll have to forgive my initial skepticism. I've heard more than a few people claim that they would pay the author "if only they gave me a way to do so". They also tend to bring up the other ways one reads books without paying, and they also want to draw the focus away from the morality of such things. As I said, I wasn't sure where you were coming from, so I didn't know if my feelings about it applied to you or not; I was only stating my impression based on where these things usually go.

I'm all for fostering a closer connection between the author and his or her readers. (Up to a point - I don't want to know too much about them, especially considering some of the stuff I read.

)

So yes, I'm all for encouraging authors to consider seeking ways of creating a connection that will not only give people a way to contribute, but also give them another reason to do so.

Ron. · 05-08-2011, 03:37 PM

I agree the best way to help an author is buying his/her book. it's all about sales numbers, a donation might put a little money in the authors pocket but does nothing to ensure another book from him/her. If a person can't afford the full price of a new book every time one comes out, how about for every few a person reads they purchase one (to support the author) I think that would help more. Self published or indie authors are a different story though..

05-08-2011, 01:06 PM	#1
PuxyYunm Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2011 Device: Sony 650	Let's pay authors directly There are several methods of obtaining books that leave the author uncompensated such as stealing them (including illegal downloads), borrowing from friends or libraries, and buying them second-hand. I have no comment about any of the above and I certainly don't want to get mired in the tedious debates of right vs. wrong, moral vs. immoral, legal vs. illegal and so forth. But if one reads and enjoys a book obtained without any channel of recompense between the reader himself and the author, it would be nice to be able to make some sort of direct compensation to the author. Would authors who made a PayPal account available for donations, for instance, be likely to be compensated by readers who have come across their books through "non-standard" channels? Are there other kinds of compensation authors would welcome from those who can't afford the sometimes appalling prices charged for new books and who must choose between "alternate" sources or not reading the author at all? I'd welcome the opportunity to put something directly in the author's pocket, even if it were just a chance to thank him personally.

05-08-2011, 01:38 PM	#5
DArenson ebookworm Posts: 268 Karma: 100026 Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Canada Device: Kobo, Kindle	Reading books for free -- by borrowing them, stealing them, or reading them used -- is not necessary bad for authors. Most of these readers wouldn't buy a copy anyway. But they'll read the book for free, and if they like it, they'll tell their friends. Maybe they'll buy the author's next book. It gets the word out and, in the long term, can possibly help the author. Now, I'm not saying we should all head over to torrent websites now, and start downloading pirated ebooks. Obviously, that's still illegal, and still a no no. But if you DID read the book for free, tell your friends. Blog about it. Leave a review. That's the best way to help the author, in my opinion. Last edited by DArenson; 05-08-2011 at 01:45 PM.

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05-08-2011, 01:13 PM	#2
mr ploppy Feral Underclass Posts: 3,622 Karma: 26821535 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire, tha noz Device: 2nd hand paperback	I forget who it was now, but one writer said that those sort of donations don't do them any good. What they need is legitimate sales so that the publisher (if they are using one) knows there is a demand for that writer.

05-08-2011, 01:26 PM	#4
PuxyYunm Junior Member Posts: 6 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2011 Device: Sony 650	Naturally, that makes sense, and I certainly don't mean to suggest such a mechanism as a replacement for the normal market However, as has been beaten to a bloody pulp in other threads, ebooks can be obtained without payment. I suspect there are those who can't purchase new copies, but who would like to give the author something. There won't be a legitimate sale in any case, but there could be something passed between reader and writer.

05-08-2011, 01:42 PM	#6
CWatkinsNash IOC Chief Archivist Posts: 3,950 Karma: 53868218 Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Fruitland Park, FL, USA Device: Meebook M7, Paperwhite 2021, Fire HD 8+, Fire HD 10+, Lenovo Tab P12	As DD said, you can't really discuss the options without touching on the things you do not wish to discuss. I don't know where you are coming from, morally or otherwise, but when I see such a suggestion it usually comes across as a way to legitimize piracy. There are already authors who are happy to accept donations. There are others who prefer to be paid by actually selling books in the standard fashion. I prefer to respect their wishes in that regard.

05-08-2011, 02:38 PM	#10
Worldwalker Curmudgeon Posts: 3,085 Karma: 722357 Join Date: Feb 2010 Device: PRS-505	Why should people buying a used book give money to the author? He already got paid once! If I buy a used car, I don't send money off to Detroit. If I buy a used bookshelf, I don't hunt up the original manufacturer and send them a check. Why should I pay the author again for his book and not the manufacturer of the shelf I put it on or the car I brought it home in? Once you sell something, whether it's a car or a bookshelf or a book, you've sold it; there's no obligation on anyone's part to pay you again every time it changes hands. The same is true of lending; if you borrow my car, you don't have to pay the manufacturer, either. I can even rent out my car without having to pay anyone off. The idea of paying every time you read a book, whether it's bought, borrowed, used, whatever, is another step closer to "one book, one set of eyes, one time" which is, in turn, another step in the decline of reading.

05-08-2011, 03:37 PM	#15
Ron. Evangelist Posts: 448 Karma: 864744 Join Date: Mar 2011 Device: Kindle 3, LookBook, Nook Simple Touch	I agree the best way to help an author is buying his/her book. it's all about sales numbers, a donation might put a little money in the authors pocket but does nothing to ensure another book from him/her. If a person can't afford the full price of a new book every time one comes out, how about for every few a person reads they purchase one (to support the author) I think that would help more. Self published or indie authors are a different story though..