Amazon removing gay ebooks from their catalog again

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by Seabound

35% off this weekend. Coupon code '050611'. Not much I want to buy there nowadays, though.



You speak Japanese, then?

yes. i like learning foreign languages, but they do take time.

the only problem with FW is their security, i think. someone in one of the groups i joined on GR said their card info got stolen after they purchased from the site.

[Seabound]

Right on, Marc!

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

If you consider ps249 ignorant and bigoted, I suspect that you would consider the majority of Americans to be as well.

Yep, that's a pretty good bet.

[Seabound]

Originally Posted by wyndslash

yes. i like learning foreign languages, but they do take time.

the only problem with FW is their security, i think. someone in one of the groups i joined on GR said their card info got stolen after they purchased from the site.

Really? What's GR?

[wyndslash]

Originally Posted by Rizla

What? I can't get my fix of gay smut from Amazon? Then I shall avoid Amazon.

But seriously, this seems prejudiced to me. Have you read any of these so-called romances for women these days? They'll make your toes curl. Total smut...

I think the Amazon censorship is not only absurd but crypto-homophobic. At least I think that's the word. I'm fed up with the gay hating, and I'm straight.

you mean like bodice-ripper types of romances? true, all this gay-hating makes me ashamed of being straight. aren't we all supposed to love? :P i mean, hating is a waste of a good life. besides, i really can't understand where all the hate comes from? i mean, is it the sex? because i know most straight couples nowadays also experiment ....anyway, i was able to read those bodice-rippers back when i was younger. my sisters had them on their shelves, and i was curious i have to say, i was surprised

@seabound: goodreads

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by ardeegee

Yep, that's a pretty good bet.

seconded

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by carld

Pornography is not illegal.

Carl, I don't know where you're from, but it is in America, which is where Amazon is located.

[Iphinome]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Carl, I don't know where you're from, but it is in America, which is where Amazon is located.

Maybe I misunderstood, you're not saying that pornography is illegal are you?

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Pornography has always been illegal in the United States. As far as I know, we still are under the "community standards" test set down by the Supreme Court decades ago. In the US, it is considered by the law to be perfectly legitimate for members of the community to impose their standards regarding pornography.

*****

Actually, judging from the various votes we had a few years ago on gay marriage, I think that the vast majority will not only tolerate but will support ps249 and sunnysmiles. More on this below.





I don't know anything about Taiwan, but here in the US where Amazon is located, it is the homosexuals who are the small minority. We had votes a few years ago in a number of states to approve gay marriage, and they lost in every state by a landslide. My conclusion is that the vast majority of Americans consider homosexuals to be perverts, and would support the banning of gay porn.




The First Amendment has never protected pornography.

*****

Here in the US, it's the squeaky wheel that gets the oil. I think that just about every change of every policy regarding just about everything is due to the efforts of a relatively small group of people. If everyone waited for the majority to get off their duffs, nothing would ever happen.

In this case, I suspect the complainers would have the support of the vast majority of the American people. I think I know how a referendum on gay porn would turn out.



The nature of outlawing porn considering community standards requires that some people's views win out.

*****

If you consider ps249 ignorant and bigoted, I suspect that you would consider the majority of Americans to be as well. Well, Delta is ready when you are, as the saying goes.



Atheist Hans? Object to religious folks having any say in the matter? Americans who object to gay porn must be religious fringe? I don't think that you have your finger on the pulse of the American people.

It doesn't matter if it is a majority or minority -- what matters is that some people are trying to tell other people how to live their lives. Would it be ok if a majority voted that African Americans cannot vote? That would be unconstitutional, a majority cannot take rights away from a minority.

And I am not so sure that a majority of Amazon shoppers (those are the ones that really matter here, not the public at large) actually support this removal of reading materials. The question is who can make their voices heard.

And studies have shown that homosexuals usually make up around 15% of people everywhere, and they tend to be better educated, thus they will read more. Besides, as you can see on this forum, many straight people (myself included) speak up and support their rights.

[CommonReader]

Amazon has the right to decide on what they sell but likewise do people have the right to criticize them for their decisions.
I just wonder if we would get the same relaxed "they can sell what they want" response if Amazon decided to delist e.g. books by Ann Coulter and other right wingers.

Anyway, we should keep in mind that Amazon cultivates a brand image that gives the impression that basically any book you are looking for can be found on their site. This doesn't really fit with arbitrary decisions to remove some books. It's not as if people were enraged that they can't get a book on container shipping from a bookstore that specializes in religious scripture, after all.
Amazon also makes people invest in their hardware that is more or less tied to their store. As a customer I would expect them to offer the widest possible selection of books for this hardware in return.

Finally Amazon should keep in mind that urbane gays are most probably a more interesting target group for their shop than vociferous bigots.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Yes, there is one more thing we can do. It is to alert others that we don't agree with those policies and let Amazon know. Probably precisely what those that have pushed Amazon to remove those items (it must have been some religious fringe groups) have done in the first place. Why shouldn't others react in kind? If you never speak up, businesses will think that they are acting in their best interest.

We simply have to convince Amazon and others that such moves are bad for business.

I tend to agree (though not passionately). As I said in my post that you quoted, I have no problem with people discussing whether or not Amazon should. I was addressing the poster who questioned Amazon's right to do what they're doing. That's simply not up for debate.

[crich70]

The problem with banning something on the basis that it's porn is that there isn't a single definition that fits what porn is. My favorite story of how broad the definition is concerns a booklet that a man sent via mail in either the late 19th or early 20th century. He was charged with sending obscene literature through the mail. What he'd done was have the Song of Songs by Solomon printed up and then mailed them out to others. One mans porn is often another man's art. So to say such and such is porn and this isn't porn seems very simplistic to me. Also even if porn is illegal in the U.S. you don't see it being enforced usually. The reason being (IMO) that it could be considered a violation of a given person's civil rights to do so. That is if the Gov. can tell me what I can and can't read what is next? Granted there are some gray areas in the argument as you would have a hard time proving that someone had the right to view actual child porn for example, but there is a difference I think between a drawn image and a photo. The photo would be of an actual real human being while a drawn pic isn't. And anyone who couldn't tell the difference between a drawing and a photo would have bigger problems than whether or not something is porn or not.

[Kenneth_irl]

I'm with the group: If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Forcing moral standards upon others is just pain wrong, imo. We're not babies that cannot make our own decisions, we can do that perfectly fine, thank you (in the realm of what is legal, or at least widely tolerated, morally)

Amazon is in their rightful place to decide what products are available in their store, eg. porno. But if Amazon, or any other firm, were proven to have an anti-gay policy, yet a pro straight policy, then I would boy cut them in a heart beat. (not that you cannot sell straight porn, toys, eg. without also selling the gay equivalent. It's the reasons behind the decisions that are the key factor here, imo.)

Edit: (a bit of topic, I guess)

Originally Posted by HansTWN

And studies have shown that homosexuals usually make up around 15% of people everywhere, and they tend to be better educated, thus they will read more. Besides, as you can see on this forum, many straight people (myself included) speak up and support their rights.

Indeed, there is nothing that can get my blood boiling as injustice against human beings just because they're different (sexually,eg). But sadly humans have always hated against what they cannot understand, or what they fear. Or just because it makes them feel better about themselves, eg. I suspect it all really boils down to being a part of our mental defence mechanisms (hating on gays, eg).

[Nyssa]

Most forms of pornography are considered protected forms of free speech, here, in the United States. There are age restrictions as far as sales, but most are not illegal in any way, shape or form!

Pornography involving children is illegal, as it should be!


As for Amazon, I am disappointed in their removing the gay-manga, but I recognize their right to sell or not sell the products of their choosing. As mentioned before, as long as they are not refusing to sell to a specific demographic, they are not breaking any laws.

[jhempel24]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Most forms of pornography are considered protected forms of free speech, here, in the United States. There are age restrictions as far as sales, but most are not illegal in any way, shape or form!

Pornography involving children is illegal, as it should be!


As for Amazon, I am disappointed in their removing the gay-manga, but I recognize their right to sell or not sell the products of their choosing. As mentioned before, as long as they are not refusing to sell to a specific demographic, they are not breaking any laws.

+1. I know if several porn shops in my area. In fact Hustler originated here. Not illegal at all.