Amazon removing gay ebooks from their catalog again

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

Maybe I'm wrong, but aren't businesses allowed to determine what products they will carry and what audiences they will target?

I also think it's wrong to say "Amazon IS doing this" when we don't know if it is corporate policy or the work of a relatively few members of it's staff.

So you would have no problems with a restaurant putting up a sign "we don't serve gay people here"? Or not putting up a sign, but telling every gay customer "sorry, we have sold out"?

Feel free to substitute African American, Muslim, whatever for gay.

Amazon has explicitly declared "we want to carry every book ever written", they are not some niche provider who targets only deeply religious Christian audiences. Yes, it is within their legal rights and YES, it is every citizens duty to make others aware of such discrimination. What we should be angry about is that public pressure by small minorities can get businesses to discriminate so openly.

Let Amazon know that such self censorship is not in their best business interest, speak up!

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

So you would have no problems with a restaurant putting up a sign "we don't serve gay people here"?

The corrollary to your question would be a restaurant that was refusing to sell to people of a certain persuasion. Amazon sells to everyone, near as I can tell.

I'd see nothing wrong with a restaurant choosing to sell haggis if they wanted, while leaving falafel off the menu, btw.

[jhempel24]

Whatever, they can sell what ever they want, or ban whatever they want. It's their business, if their choices lead to bad business and loss of customers, it's on them, I couldn't care less. I don't HAVE to buy from Amazon.

[Frida Fantastic]

Originally Posted by jhempel24

Whatever, they can sell what ever they want, or ban whatever they want. It's their business, if their choices lead to bad business and loss of customers, it's on them, I couldn't care less. I don't HAVE to buy from Amazon.

While I agree to some extent, Amazon is sending a message about what content isn't welcome, which doesn't make me a very happy customer.

Silly analogy, but bear with me. If a store claimed to sell all of the pastry from all over the world, but for some reason removed everything from Asia even though they have the room for it, and they'd go out of their way to keep their pastry Asian-free... even anything just Asian-inspired, I'd ask, what's the deal? What do you have against the delicious coconut buns and green tea sponge cakes? What set off the store owner? Being Asian, I might even feel unwelcome in the store even if I was going in for a scone, just because for some reason, everything associated with anything Asian is purposefully eliminated!

It would be one story if the store never stocked any Asian pastry to begin with. But I would be flustered to see if for some reason, all the other sponge cakes are still sitting there but the green tea one is gone! It doesn't make me feel comfortable.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by Stitchawl

You would be absolutely amazed...



Not even close!



This is quite accurate, but...
... this doesn't give you a full indication of just how pornographic manga can be! Imagine comic books that covers EVERY fetish imaginable.

There is so much pornographic content in manga. The majority of porn manga deal with bondage and rape, both gay and straight. B&D is a popular theme in Japan. If you look at the manga rack in a 7-Eleven, you find an entire section with the manga tied up to prevent 'looking.' And this is in a convenience store! Imagine how many different ones get sold in the Adult book stores!

Stitchawl

It is also worth noting that pornagraphic manga has landed an American in prison in the last year, so I can understand, from a business standpoint, Amazon being a little gun-shy on carrying certain titles. Does it irk me that they only removed the homosexual material and none of the graphic straight titles? Sure. But they are within their rights. It irks me that my local bookstore only carries political books that cover half the political spectrum of my country while largely ignoring the other half. But they are a business and they sell, stock and market what will make them money - not what will make one group or another feel discriminated against. And I say that being a member of that particular group. I am gay. I read yuri manga (though not the hentai - pornagraphic - yuri manga). But there are so many other real causes that affect me (like the ability to wed my partner) that I just dont have it in me to get upset at a business making a business decision.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by ps249

I say good job Amazon!!!!!! Its nothing but pornography.

Originally Posted by sunnysmiles

Good I would also like to see all the other porn removed from amazon especially where the covers are explicit.

Don't like porn? Don't buy it. But whether or not you personally like it, people should be allowed to draw and write anything they want, and other people should be allowed to buy it if they so desire.

You're not trying to control what you can read -- you're already in total control of what you do or do not buy from Amazon, or from anywhere else. This means you're trying to control what I can read, and I reject, very strongly, anyone telling me that I'm not allowed to read something, especially "for my own good". Get your hands out of my bedroom and off of my bookshelf.

(note: I don't actually read hentai, at least not usually ... it just doesn't do anything for me ... but thanks to this, I'm very tempted to start)

[queentess]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

How can an ebook be gay?

Maybe it was a little too well-dressed and stylish, and it's hair was just a little too awesome.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

(note: I don't actually read hentai, at least not usually ... it just doesn't do anything for me ... but thanks to this, I'm very tempted to start)

to expanding your horizons. who knows, maybe i'll join you. my partner already reads some, i know. maybe i'll just borrow some of hers.

[ps249]

Originally Posted by cfrizz

No one is putting a gun to your head to buy it. Live & let live & stop trying to force YOUR personal morals on the rest of the world!



Please, if they did that, they would lose half of their merchandise/sales!



No one is putting a gun to your head to buy it. Live & let live & stop trying to force YOUR personal morals on the rest of the world!

One persons porn, is another persons entertainment, so long as no one is forcing you to buy it, why the hell do you care?

So long as it is not ending up in minors hands (parents need to actually be parents & monitor their children) no harm no foul.

The vast majority of people will not tolerate your (ps249, sunnysmiles) form of censorship.

Ands who are you? The gay godfather? Are you the new gay superhero?

[HarryT]

Forgive the question, but is there any evidence that ONLY gay eBooks have been removed? Might it not be the case that Amazon are purging content which they deem to be unsuitable, regardless of whether it's "straight" or "gay" (as they have every right to do)?

[Vandy]

Hello, All.

I must say I have enjoyed immensely reading through this thread. I would like to add my own thoughts...

First of all, even if I don't like a particular style of work, pictures, sounds, etc., I shall defend your right to view, draw or listen to it. If I didn't then how could I honestly tell myself I believe in the First Amendment.

I agree with the majority here. If you don't like it, don't buy it AND don't you dare keep me from buying it.

I believe that the basic problem here is we're discussing a business' right to carry / sell / display what they wish -- i.e., their merchandise. Said merchandise is not subject to the First Amendment since it is a private buisness deciding what merchandise to carry.

Finally, I must agree that it is a sorry state of affairs when a verbal minority can change the business practices of a company. However, once again we must consider the business' right to listen to or not to listen to their customer base no matter how large or small it might be given the issue to which complaints are made.

Bottom line? If one REALLY WANTS it, there is more than one place from which it can be found.

It's a shame it has to come to this type of unpleasantrly, I must say...

Regards,

[carld]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Forgive the question, but is there any evidence that ONLY gay eBooks have been removed? Might it not be the case that Amazon are purging content which they deem to be unsuitable, regardless of whether it's "straight" or "gay" (as they have every right to do)?

If you read the linked article, yes it appears that with one exception only gay manga is being removed or refused while equally explicit straight books are being left alone.

I'm fine with it if Amazon decides to set a limit for the explicitness of content as long as it is equally enforced. That does not appear to be the case. They're selectively targeting and removing gay manga.

[crich70]

Actually that has happened in the past. At one time the idea of "seperate but equal" was a common thing. Black people had separate restaurants, movie theaters, even restrooms and water fountains. The government had to step in to put an end to it. That was just a bit before my time as I was born at the end of 1970 and the civil unrest that saw such things abolished occurred in the 1960's.

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

The corrollary to your question would be a restaurant that was refusing to sell to people of a certain persuasion. Amazon sells to everyone, near as I can tell.

I'd see nothing wrong with a restaurant choosing to sell haggis if they wanted, while leaving falafel off the menu, btw.

[carld]

Regarding the argument that Amazon can do whatever they want, that may not be true depending on where you live. The same argument can be made for e-harmony (the online matchmaker), but they were recently sued in California and lost because they provide their service for straights but not for gays.

I'm not saying the cases are the same, because they aren't, but I don't put a lot of stock in the idea that Amazon can discriminate if they want to.

[covingtoncat73]

Originally Posted by bashfulbanshee

While I agree to some extent, Amazon is sending a message about what content isn't welcome, which doesn't make me a very happy customer.

Silly analogy, but bear with me. If a store claimed to sell all of the pastry from all over the world, but for some reason removed everything from Asia even though they have the room for it, and they'd go out of their way to keep their pastry Asian-free... even anything just Asian-inspired, I'd ask, what's the deal? What do you have against the delicious coconut buns and green tea sponge cakes? What set off the store owner? Being Asian, I might even feel unwelcome in the store even if I was going in for a scone, just because for some reason, everything associated with anything Asian is purposefully eliminated!

It would be one story if the store never stocked any Asian pastry to begin with. But I would be flustered to see if for some reason, all the other sponge cakes are still sitting there but the green tea one is gone! It doesn't make me feel comfortable.

That is a good analogy. I'm not interested in any kind of Manga, myself, let alone the kind Amazon removed, but, as has been noted, Amazon's expressed mission is to sell EVERY book EVER. I have no problem with that. I think that is great but this removal goes against that philosophy.

Also, your analogy makes me hungry for an excellent Vietnamese bakery we have here in NOLA-land on Chef Menteur Hwy.