There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[carld]

I wonder if what Baen is doing works so well why are they still the only company of any significance doing this? Baen's been selling their books without DRM for years now, and they're still the only one's doing so.

PS: Yes, I know I said I was done with this thread, and I was, but Baen interests me.

[stonetools]

"Many" would be ... um ... one? And that one may be just trying to wind you up.

I counted a quite a few who pretty much told Jordan that piracy was best thing that ever happened to him and told him that he was a crybaby and a quitter if he disagreed.

No, they won't.

If you can predict the future like that, you need to be in the stock market
In the meantime, I'm having a tough time fitting my casette tape in my Ipad.

DRM does not "preserve and protect" the rights of anyone. Though it does protect the self-assigned privileges of device manufacturers. (on which note, I don't think you've explained yet how I'm supposed to read .mobi-formatted books on my Sony)

Presumably, the same way you can run IOS programs on Android devices. Oh wait, you can't.
What about the way you can run Macinintosh programs on Windows machines. Hot damn, you can't do that either. And you can't run Playstation games on XBox.
Could it be that is a lot of device incompatability out there and its just not limited to ebooks? DING DING DING!

So why are there so many authors out there who do not find it necessary to DRM-lock their ebooks? And why are they still writing books?

Masochism, maybe? What matters is that MOST bestselling authors and publishers apparently find DRM necessary. Maybe you need to write a nice letter to Stephen King , Dan Brown, Dean Kootnz, or John Scalzi and convince them to put their next book out there DRM free. They might ask you to guarantee their losses, though. Would you be willing to put your money where your mouth is? Or do I hear crickets chirping?

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by stonetools

You'll get no argument from me here. I find it absurd that works written prior to 1940 aren't in the public domain. Sign me up for a campaign to limit copyright terms to 70 years or 20 years after the death of the author, whichever comes later.

and Music...and movies/video....?

Stonetools, ask yourself the following questions. Why is copyright so long? Who benefits from it? As Oliver Stone said in one of his movies - "Follow the money."

Copyright extensions in the last 40 years haven't been for the benefit of the creators, it's been for the benefit of the middlemen. Don't take my word for it, reseach it for yourself. See who gets most of the money! See who uses it to lobby Congress for extensions. See who lobbied for the DCMA. And the recent ACTA.

Disney isn't going to let anything of theirs pass into the public domain. They have and will spend as much money as it takes to prevent it. They don't give a hoot about the "collateral damage" to society. (In terms of "Orphan Works", contempt of copyright building up, ect.)

You sneered at me for being "just an amateur" compared to the Big 6 Publishers who had "more knowledge" than I did. Go ask them why they don't lobby for shorter copyright laws? For the original Berne Life + 50? For having the Berne Convention completely implemented, which means getting rid of the post 1922 grandfathering that seems to be going to be extended forever.

Once you get those answers, (good luck), then evaluate the need for DRM.

When I see a return to pre-Berne copyright in the US, then I'll back your DRM needs. Not because I believe in them, but because it'd be a fair deal. 56 years and it's PD. But I expect I'll see a functioning FTL drive before I see copyright shortened...

[ApK]

Originally Posted by carld

I wonder if what Baen is doing works so well why are they still the only company of any significance doing this? Baen's been selling their books without DRM for years now, and they're still the only one's doing so.

PS: Yes, I know I said I was done with this thread, and I was, but Baen interests me.

Smashwords is DRM free and growing, O'Reilly is DRM free and big in their field. Change takes time.
Part of it probably the fact that DRM, as some have pointed out, simply doesn't bother most average consumers...yet.
And others of us, rather than boycotting DRM, simply buy what we want...and strip as needed. And even if all we digerati joined a boycott, there are probably not enough of us yet to make a difference.
When DRM starts to hurt more people, more companies will feel pressure to follow Baen, I think.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by ApK

I was just thinking that life plus 35 would be fair. It would give ample time for any children to be well into responsible-decision-making adulthood.
I'm also seeing merit in Kenny's idea of not allowing corporations to hold copyrights, rather perhaps, there should be some sort of standard work-for-hire, exclusive license deal, sort of like giving the corporation an effective "power of attorney" over work done for them by their employees.

ApK

for all of the above!

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

But I expect I'll see a functioning FTL drive before I see copyright shortened...

Try to be more positive. Disney is effective, but they are not all-powerful. The system DOES work if work with it.

FTL drive would be cool, too.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by ApK

Try to be more positive. Disney is effective, but they are not all-powerful. The system DOES work if work with it.

FTL drive would be cool, too.

Ounce of gold on the side that copyright gets extended again by 2020?

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by carld

I wonder if what Baen is doing works so well why are they still the only company of any significance doing this? Baen's been selling their books without DRM for years now, and they're still the only one's doing so.

What do you define as "of any significance?" Do you measure the success of a publishing house by the number of its titles that make the NYT Bestseller lists (which would mean that, until a month ago, ebook- & POD-only publishers couldn't be "successful" at all)?

10 non-DRM ebook stores: AKW books, Apex Book Company, BeWrite books, Book View Café, Closed Circle, Double Dragon Publishing, L-Book, Lulu.com, Smashwords, Take Control Ebooks

Long list of DRM-Free publishers.

More DRM-Free publishers, science-fiction/romance focused.

Baen's not alone; they're just the most well-known, outside the romance circles, and the ones being most vocal about how & why they're going without DRM. They're the ones who have public statements saying, "we think we'll make more money without DRM than we would with it... please, share our ebooks with people who might buy them in the future."

[ApK]

Originally Posted by stonetools

In the meantime, I'm having a tough time fitting my casette tape in my Ipad.

I did it quite easily. I used a little program, from Microsoft, actually, to capture all my tapes and records to digital. Did it years ago, and I've been able to play them on all my media players ever since.
Wonderful thing, progress.

[Nyssa]

@Elfwreck Thank you for the links! I will be book marking your post!

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by ApK

Smashwords is DRM free and growing, O'Reilly is DRM free and big in their field. Change takes time.
Part of it probably the fact that DRM, as some have pointed out, simply doesn't bother most average consumers...yet.
And others of us, rather than boycotting DRM, simply buy what we want...and strip as needed. And even if all we digerati joined a boycott, there are probably not enough of us yet to make a difference.
When DRM starts to hurt more people, more companies will feel pressure to follow Baen, I think.

DRM may be the future: But I doubt it. Bestselling authors just have too much to lose to expose themselves in that way. Even a forward thinking author like Stephen King doesn't want to risk it.
Back on post #364, I posted three likely scenarios of what kinds of things could happen if major publishers went DRM free.

364

Interestingly, NO ONE responded saying that these scenarios were unlikely. I think people know, deep in their digerati hearts, that bestsellers would be passed around like popcorn if everyone went DRM free,they just don't think it would be all that bad for authors and publishers. Well, in fact, it would be "all that bad".
What's most likely , as I have said elsewhere, is some sort of "subscription " approach where books are streamed while held in the cloud. The last time, I proposed that, the opposition got so hot that a moderator closed the thread.
I guess I have that effect on people.

[Tome Keeper]

Originally Posted by stonetools

What's most likely , as I have said elsewhere, is some sort of "subscription " approach where books are streamed while held in the cloud.

I don't think this is the long-term solution and I hope it isn't as clouds are too vulnerable. Just look at what happened with the Playstation network last week (ok, not a cloud) but if all books, films, music were stored on clouds the same thing could happen and we'd all lose our access. Also what happens when companies go bust or decide not to host the e-books anymore? What about people who have unstable internet access?

I'd rather have a copy on my own hard drive and DRM than a copy in a cloud.

[CWatkinsNash]

Originally Posted by intheendofdays

I don't think this is the long-term solution and I hope it isn't as clouds are too vulnerable. Just look at what happened with the Playstation network last week (ok, not a cloud) but if all books, films, music were stored on clouds the same thing could happen and we'd all lose our access. Also what happens when companies go bust or decide not to host the e-books anymore? What about people who have unstable internet access?

I'd rather have a copy on my own hard drive and DRM than a copy in a cloud.

Exactly. One of Amazon's mighty clouds went down just a few days ago, taking some web sites with it.

[carld]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

What do you define as "of any significance?"

A significant publisher would be one that carries books that I've heard of by authors that I'm familiar with. I haven't looked at all the publishers that you linked to, but after looking at half a dozen I've yet to find an author that I know. They may be fine publishers of great books, but they're not even of Baen's minor significance in the larger scheme of publishing. And that isn't intended as a knock against them either, they're just small, and as far as I can tell, they don't carry any mainstream sci-fi or fantasy authors in non-drm formats.

As far as I know, Baen remains the only significant publisher of non-drm science-fiction and fantasy. I have to conclude that while I approve of their business model heartily, if it were really as successful as many claim then other larger companies would be doing it too, and they aren't.

I'd be more than happy to see evidence to the contrary.

[stonetools]

This was exhaustively discussed here

CLOUDTHREAD

and since the first two objections repeated the objections debated on that thread, I recommend that everyone read it in all is glory . No need to re-debate the wheel.