There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

With what? IOUs?



Well, it's not like I expect the world to give me something for nothing (ironic, ain't it?); I just want to earn something reasonable for my work... something aspired to by most people. I'm still not sure why that simple idea is apparently impossible for some people to understand.

May I quote from the most economically successful science fiction writer of modern time (Robert A. Heinlein) to his agent. "A manuscript will bring what it will bring, which is sometimes nothing."

The point is, there's no guarantees in the entertainment business. And it's a lousy time to be an entertainer. technology is killing the business. Some of it's piracy, but much is the "long tail" of marketing.

And let there be no mistaking this, success in entertainment is all about marketing, not skill. That's why Dan Brown was a bestseller.

I strongly, strongly, recommend you spend $5 at Baen books, for a e-book copy of Fred Pohl's memiours, The Future the Way It Was and read it. You may find his missive close to home. (And it was written in the "good old days").

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Xenophon

Apk's post is an interesting mix of confusion and correctness.

Thanks!

The 4th paragraph copyright page addresses copyright law, which is very very different from sale-vs.-license.

But is the sale-vs-license issue relevant here at all? Neither way changes what permissions, or 'license', you have regarding the copyrighted material, which is, I thought, what this is about.
We're not talking about whether or not you could, say, legally give your ebooks away to someone else or something like that where sale-vs-license would be relevant.

He gets it right, too, except for the trailing " ...just as your ebook LICENSE does" which is irrelevant.

Why? The relevance, as I see it, is that just as you can buy a paper book, it's copyright law that governs what you can do with it's content, and the same applies to the ebook.

Perhaps I am inadvertently adding to the confusion when I refer to the permissions granted to you by the copyright owner as 'license."
While it's certainly a correct term in the dictionary sense, never meant to equate it with the EULA you may or may not be buying when you buy or maybe-not-really-buy the object.

So I'll try to remember to use the term "permission" instead.

ApK

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

We don't quible with your desire to be paid for what you produce. Just your view that everyone is a pirate, and we have to therefore impose the greatest possible sanctions.

I never said, or even implied, that "everyone is a pirate." I did say, or probably implied, that the web's lack of security makes it easy for anyone to be a pirate, and that needs to be fixed.

You're gonna accuse me of something, let's be straight about what we're accusing.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

I strongly, strongly, recommend you spend $5 at Baen books, for a e-book copy of Fred Pohl's memiours, The Future the Way It Was and read it. You may find his missive close to home. (And it was written in the "good old days").

I know; I have a print copy at home. At root, very depressing stuff... and it doesn't make today look much better.

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

"A manuscript will bring what it will bring, which is sometimes nothing."

When you rewrite that to say, "A manuscript will bring what it will bring, which is always nothing," then you'll know where I'm coming from.

[Sydney's Mom]

If no one pirates, or no one downloads from pirated sites, you don't need to worry about the lack of security. But to determine the lack of security is the cause for your financial complaints, and then to propose that draconian measures can prevent the harm, are
(1) unsupportable and (2) go too far beyond what is needed to curtail piracy.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by ApK

Hey, me too! I really should be doing it right now as a matter of fact.



You could try an experiment. Start selling copies of your bought-and-purchased personal ebook property on-line and make some money.
Maybe you'll get sued, and then maybe a judge can explain to you more clearly than us here if you are right or wrong in your understanding.

ApK

Lots of people sell second hand ebooks on Ebay, but they don't seem to have much of a resale value

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EBOOKS-Stephen...item27ba06b829

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ULTIMATE-STAR-...item4aaab0e47f

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Discworld-eboo...item3cb72738d5

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EBOOKS-Dean-Ko...item27ba06b771

[Sydney's Mom]

Stephen King is not in the public domain! Are they lying?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

If no one pirates, or no one downloads from pirated sites, you don't need to worry about the lack of security.

And you expect that to happen when..?

(Hint: It involves a point of anatomy that pigs will fly out of)

[NVash]

Youre not going to start marketing yourself some more at all are you? Youre just going to continue talking about how piracy on the web needs to be stopped.

[Sydney's Mom]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

And you expect that to happen when..?

(Hint: It involves a point of anatomy that pigs will fly out of)

You are the one that thinks this is a huge problem, not me. I'm sure there are plenty of pirates out there - I don't go there.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Sydney's Mom

Stephen King is not in the public domain! Are they lying?

It's on the Internet, silly. It must be true!

I think it's hilarious that they are actually listed as used. "Like New" condition! I hope the ePages haven't yellowed and the eSpines haven't cracked.

Personally, I'd have just created a new copy of the file and then listed it truthfully as BRAND NEW!

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

I was talking about getting paid for my work. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a topic anyone else is interested in, as they keep changing the subject back to piracy.

Oh, yeah... the thread topic...

Oh, well. I guess I'll just do a high-kick-off right here.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by ApK

Personally, I'd have just created a new copy of the file and then listed it truthfully as BRAND NEW!

That sounds like legalised murder to me!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...w.google.co.uk

[NVash]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

I was talking about getting paid for my work. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a topic anyone else is interested in, as they keep changing the subject back to piracy.

Oh, yeah... the thread topic...

Oh, well. I guess I'll just do a high-kick-off right here.

Truthfully I dont think the piracy is anywhere near as big as youre trying to make it. I dont think thats the point here in the least nor am I trying to defend them. Im trying to say that if you want to get paid for said work you might want to do some more of said work. All this time, maybe Ive missed a post from you but it seems you did some promotion but very little, if any, advertising. Thats your number one problem. Forget the pirates. They have actually complimented you putting you in a torrent like that since youre an unknown. Why dont you worry about changing that very important fact instead of some people that you havent any hope of taking on? All this 'lost sales' is complex mumbo jumbo, some people may buy your book, some may not, most still have no idea who you are.

Bottom line, take the pirates out of the picture. Youve lost free publicity and worst of all, your name still isnt out there. Get to the root of the problem. Youre wasting your time with this whole piracy crusade.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

With what? IOUs?



Well, it's not like I expect the world to give me something for nothing (ironic, ain't it?); I just want to earn something reasonable for my work... something aspired to by most people. I'm still not sure why that simple idea is apparently impossible for some people to understand.

I fully agree that you should be able to earn something for the work you do (if people are willing to buy it). What kills me is the fact that you are so readily giving up. What are you going to do when the Necromongers show up at your door? Fight or Convert? Your answer right now seems to lean toward “Convert.”

As said before, I can't speak for anyone other than myself - I've never pirated your work. I've never even LOOKED for your work on the darknet. I do not think that it is ok to take and enjoy someone's hard work without offering them compensation for that (unless it is offered for free). I've even discussed WITH YOU how it makes me - as a book BUYER - feel when being lumped in with the people who pirate your work. And even with that, I STILL gave you my money. So I’m not joining your pity party.

I know that it's hard work and I know that it can be discouraging - but that is with EVERYTHING that is worthwhile. NOTHING that is worth doing or having is easy or cheap.

I feel your pain. My husband isn't a writer but he toils and sweats and burns the midnight oil on his business just as you do with yours. But it kind of boils down to spirit and motivation. You can let someone else dictate your life direction or YOU can dictate your life direction.

Maybe we were just raised differently.

I think you're spending too much time worrying about Google Alerts. Maybe you're on overload. Why not unplug that for a while, go over to Goodreads, complete your author profile - and maybe join that group that has (had?) a member thought so much about your work that he/she nominated it for a monthly club read. You can try spending some time with people who could (and probably want to) become customers rather than being depressed about ebook pirates. Spend some time rediscovering why it is that you decided to become a writer and get reacquainted with the books that pushed you in that direction. http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...asy_eBook_Club and http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/...tasy_Book_Club While I hate to say it, MR isn’t exactly the best site to advertise at.

You could also try lowering your cost to offset your losses. Have you tried using wordpress.org or wordpress.com rather than maintaining your own site?

Then again, you’re so deep in the “woe is me” department that I’m sure I’m