There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Depending on where you live this is not entirely true.
Many(I think?) countries have a special "tax" on new media (i.e. empty cassettes, CDs, hard discs, etc...) to reimburse artists for losses because of private copies.

Just for clarity, no artists get any of the money from that tax, it all goes to large corporations.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Just for clarity, no artists get any of the money from that tax, it all goes to large corporations.

Interesting how that works. In the US, we have farm subsidies that are supposed to benefit family farmers and keep them afloat, and go to trans-national agribusinesses instead. You'd almost think the politicians were bought and paid for by the corporations ... oh.

[Anke Wehner]

In Germany AFAIK it goes to organisations of creative professions - e.g. writers union - who distribute it among their members - writers. Minus overhead, that is. (In theory. I don't have heard one way or the other if they keep it all for themselves in praxis.)

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

This, I think, is the fatal disconnect that spawns piracy in the first place: People who believe the products of creators are automatically theirs by right, and that they have the right to obtain that property by any means possible, legal or otherwise.

For people who are refused a sale because they live in the wrong country the "otherwise" would only come into play after they have exhausted all "legal" options. At least for the first time they hit that barrier. After they find out how easy it is to get around that barrier without having to pay anything to read the book a new "pirate" is born.

I don't really see how this transfers into the real world, because in the real world those barriers don't exist. There has always been mail order companies that will post you a book regardless of where you live. So there was no reason to look for alternative ways of reading it.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ApK

Hi Kenny, welcome to the discussion! For the last 25 pages or so we've been discussing the piracy and protection of copyrighted material. Glad you could join us!

Don't act like an ass unless you want to be treated like one.

[Pablo]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

But instead they simply targetted everyone (as usual I might add) and declared everone a pirate and now get money irrelevant of what you do with the medium.

AFAIK, the tax is not to compensate for piracy, just for personal backup copies of the original media.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by ApK

A presidential administration that Bruce Springsteen did not agree with once wanted to use "Born in the USA" as a campaign song. Springsteen said no. He refused to license it to them. That was his choice and his right under copyright law. He is under no obligation to take their money.

ApK

Must be different in the UK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...nifesto-launch

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by jkeene

I just searched my e-mail for my order receipts from Amazon. I didn't check every e-book order, there were over sixty of them, but the first ten all said "Sold by:" and then some seller, often Amazon, but also including various others publishers when the agency model applied.

So I think your quoted statement from the Kindle terms "Unless otherwise specified...", is often specified otherwise in the order receipt, and specified as sold.

Exactly, not "licensed by"

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

What? Do you expect to retire? I don't. Given the present economic reality, and the fact that I only expect it to get worse over the next 20-30 years, I don't expect that I'll be able to afford to retire, even after my house is paid off. That's not "wallowing"... it's a statement based on reality as I see it.

To that end, I've been planning for the future and looking for a second income, something I could reliably add to a retirement pension (if any) at some future time... because I don't believe social security (if it still exists) and a retirement pension (if any) will be enough to live off of... not even close.

And my luck stinks, so the lottery is out of the question.

Buy a gun (or steal one if you can't afford it) and use it to rob a bank. Apparently doing that is no worse than downloading an ebook without the writer's permission. And under Stonetools' new world order you would get a shorter prison sentence if you got caught.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by stonetools

You break DRM precisely because you want to violate the authors copyright by making unauthorized copies and forwarding them to other people, .

Can't speak for anyone else but I do it so that I can fix all the spelling mistakes in case I might want to read it again one day. Is there a tool to put the DRM back on when I've finished so that I can avoid a 20 year prison sentence?

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I was going to quit, but then I saw this again. ONCE AGAIN, passing a physical book along to your daddy or office buddy is completely different from sending DRM free copies of an ebook to your Face book friends or your AIM buddy list or your favorite mailing list.
.

Whoever it was that I replied to (might have been you?) said that DRM was there to stop casual sharing among family members. If that is really the case, I find it quite a bizarre decision.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Don't act like an ass unless you want to be treated like one.

Sorry, I was trying to be funny. Some of the things you say are so ridiculous, a joke is the only responses that fits.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by ApK

Using your wormhole again? You seem to have no problem knowing what might have been when it suits you.

Maybe it was this way: People wanted ebooks. Pirate saw the demand and filled it before the industry could. (with out costs or legal concerns it's easy to act quickly.)
Now by the time legitimate industry got into it, the presence of the pirates convinced them they needed these DRM measures, because it was already demonstrated people couldn't be trusted to respect copyright if it was free and easy to cheat.

No wormhole required, it's just (very recent) history. A lot of people (me included) thought ebooks were a stupid idea, there was certainlly no commericial interest in them from publishers. Even now they seem to be an afterthought.

Originally Posted by ApK

And on a mere point of logic: If the pirate community is 'mostly folks who would not pay for the books no matter what' than how can the existence of a pirate community correctly indicate a potential for profit?

Software pirates have always been interested in buying hardware to play their content on. But once the hardware has been created "normal" people buy it and then they want legitimate content for it.

mp3 followed the same route, thought it took off a lot quicker than ebooks. People made their own mp3s and put them on the internet, some company (Riovolt, I think -- and the RIAA tried to sue them for making it) made a hardware mp3 player, "normal" people bought them as well as pirates, and eventually the music industry decided to allow people to buy mp3s.

[stonetools]

just searched my e-mail for my order receipts from Amazon. I didn't check every e-book order, there were over sixty of them, but the first ten all said "Sold by:" and then some seller, often Amazon, but also including various others publishers when the agency model applied.

Yup, what they sold you was a license. You can sell licenses.
You might be interested to know that every software program that you use is purchased under a license. What's an ebook? Its not a physical object; its software. I might add that there is nothing intrinsically inferior about a license. Its just a different bundle of property rights. But it is different from a sale.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by ApK

Sorry, I was trying to be funny. Some of the things you say are so ridiculous, a joke is the only responses that fits.

Heh

If you keep this up, kennyc will soon accuse you of being in the pay of the publishers.