There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[Hellmark]

If it really is their right to deny to sell to people they don't want, why is it still hunky dory with them to sell me the physical book when they won't sell me the ebook?

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Since we're just going around in circles anyway, property rights don't exist.

...that kind of talk is sacrilegious.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Only if you're given permission to do so. Remember, it's their property; not yours.

Thus they lose a sale, actually probably many sales. Meanwhile a darknet torrent allows the self same ebook to be downloaded without cost.

Most of us would much rather pay an author for his work.

I remember the convolutions I had to go through to buy an Aussie author's ebooks that were not allowed to be sold in his home country! Nope, no ebooks here.

This is all about archaic business systems. DVD's and bluray still have regions. Little wonder movies are downloaded so often when the release lag between those regions is so long.

A better, more proactive digitally orientated business system is the way forward. It is a pity that these companies are so firmly entrenched in last centuries business practices.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

If it really is their right to deny to sell to people they don't want, why is it still hunky dory with them to sell me the physical book when they won't sell me the ebook?

Because ...just because.

[stonetools]

'm not most people (though admittedly I worked in electronic publishing before retiring), I'm a potential consumer. I understand your point of view, but I don't agree with it.

Well, we can agree to disagree. No worries.

And I think those priorities should include keeping customers and converting prospects. What I am arguing for is putting more emphasis on the latter, and less on combating piracy. I believe that some publishers' actions are encouraging some otherwise law-abiding citizens to break laws. Paraphrasing your earlier comment about reality and beliefs, look if laws don't work, its time to adjust the laws - if business practices don't work, then it's time to change the business model. Two examples spring to mind, Amazon and library lending, plus an e-mail I've just received from Borders drawing my attention to e-books under $3 , plus free e-book previews ... QED.

I have to admit that I'm a bit perplexed by this. I get the impression from you that publishers are 100 per cent focused on piracy and do little marketing. I think its precisely the reverse. Every single day, I get emails from Amazon, B&N, Borders, and Kobo touting some promotion or sale (Maybe you need to sign up for the newsletters?)
THere is an entire forum here dedicated to keeping track of various freebies and ebook promos offered by publishers and booksellers. Google " author's book tours"-who do you think pays for those-pirate sites?
The plain fact is that pirate sites don't pay for anything and don't help the authors and publishers. They are to the publishing industry as leeches and tapeworms are to a healthy human being. Just as we would not ignore leeches and tapeworms if we had them, so too the publishers cannot ignore pirates, as to you seem to advocate . On the contrary, the publishers have the right, duty, and contractual obligation to preserve, protect and defend the IP rights of the authors they represent. That means taking action against pirates, in addition to marketing.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Yet they do NOTHING to attract more customers.

...and yet sales keep increasing and ebook popularity keeps rising.

So perhaps that's Stonetools point about it being we, the digerati*, who care about these particular changes, not Joe Consumer.
Not to say that we who want certain things reformed aren't right and acting in Joe Consumers best interest.
As for Georestrictions, I'm still convinced that they'd like to take money from anyone, anywhere, and if they could work out a way to do that they don't see as harmful to their business they would.

ApK

*I happly include myself among the digerati if they'll have me. I can't understand why it would be an insult to be considered "knowledgeable people at the cutting edge of all things digital" or "in tune with the digital revolution."
l33t is a Good Thing in this arena.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Exactly. I've been fighting a losing battle, so I give up. I'm a loser. On the other hand, I was raised to be able to recognize a fruitless cause.



Considering my current losses have been in the negative hundreds each year (not counting the value of my time spent actually writing... we'll put that at a few thousand), moving my results to $0.00 would be an improvement.

Let me summarize my small story. There was a time I devoted everything to a writing career. I did this full time for several years. The goal was to write and publish fiction and be able to survive at a subsistence level. The money I actually made was in the non-fiction area writing science and technology pieces for a variety of magazines and school programs. In the end I could keep it up. I spent what little retirement savings I had at the time (cashing in a small 401K and paying the penalty). At that the end I had to return to the corporate computer world to put dog food in the bowl and vowed that from here on out I'd only write what I wanted, when I wanted and publish/sell it as possible.

It freed me to write my poetry which I enjoy tremendously. I'm now at a place in my life where I'm potentially looking at getting back in the writing game and lessen my corporate work. I have no idea if it is possible at this point, but I'm going to give it a try. There are many possibilities on the new publishing horizon for ebooks and self-publication and the landscape it changing and will continue to change. I hope to be a part of it.

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

Remember, it's their property; not yours.

This, I think, is the fatal disconnect that spawns piracy in the first place: People who believe the products of creators are automatically theirs by right, and that they have the right to obtain that property by any means possible, legal or otherwise.

In the real world, these people can't usually exercise this belief, due to little things like laws and security. But on the web, there are no laws or security, so it's easy. And all of their arguments and justifications boil down to an effort to keep the laws and security that make the rest of society work, off of the Internet so they can continue to take advantage of others.

This won't change until real security and globally-agreed-upon laws are brought to the web. You think this discussion is something? Right now, piracy is little more than a nuisance. If the web doesn't gain security, things will get much, much worse.

[tubemonkey]

Originally Posted by sabredog

Thus they lose a sale, actually probably many sales. Meanwhile a darknet torrent allows the self same ebook to be downloaded without cost.

And a gun allows one to "borrow" funds from a bank after being turned down for a loan.

[caleb72]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

Exactly. I've been fighting a losing battle, so I give up. I'm a loser. On the other hand, I was raised to be able to recognize a fruitless cause.

Steven, I'm sorry writing isn't delivering for you the way you were hoping, whether or not it's because of piracy.

I think the only thing I can really promise you is that I will never steal any of your books.

Regards
Caleb

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Let me summarize my small story...

For me, writing was supposed to be the thing that would allow me to retire at a reasonable age. Since I now know I can't depend on that, I can now depend on never retiring, and working a 9-to-5 until I die.

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

If it really is their right to deny to sell to people they don't want, why is it still hunky dory with them to sell me the physical book when they won't sell me the ebook?

This is the question I get asked so many times by people who have just purchased an ereader and want to buy ebooks.

"Amazon won't let me buy the ebook...why?"

Then

"How do I get around it? So an So told me he can get me a copy through [insert torrent site here]"

Thank God for Baen and Smashwords. Steering ebook newbies there helps out a lot, but for those who want restricted best selling books, it is simply too hard to try and buy them.

The number difference of ebooks available to Australian's for instance is substantially lower than the US.

As ebook sales increase and paperback sales decline accordingly, the issue is not going away in a hurry.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

And a gun allows one to "borrow" funds from a bank after being turned down for a loan.

Oh, but that's ok, 'cuz maybe they'll pay it back later! Maybe they'll do other business with the bank because they liked the money so much! See? Robbery is GOOD for the banks!

[sabredog]

Originally Posted by tubemonkey

And a gun allows one to "borrow" funds from a bank after being turned down for a loan.

No comparison, robbery with violence is a criminal act.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

For me, writing was supposed to be the thing that would allow me to retire at a reasonable age. Since I now know I can't depend on that, I can now depend on never retiring, and working a 9-to-5 until I die.

OK, now you're just wallowing in it....

C'mon, we'll chip in for a lottery ticket.