There's a better way to beat the ebook pirates

[NVash]

Originally Posted by kennyc

and you truly see no ethical, moral or legal issue with that?

Id hate to be a horse around here.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by ApK

Libraries are legal. They have permission to lend the books.

Legality isn't the issue here, though. The effects on authors are the issue.

If the free availability of a book affects sales, then it will affect sales whether it's legally or illegally free. If piracy reduces sales, library copies will reduce sales; if one doesn't, neither will the other.

Libraries are less physically convenient; illicit downloads are less morally convenient. Which wins out in terms of numbers? I have no clue. But a non-sale is a non-sale, whether someone copied the ebook, checked out the pbook from the library, or just didn't read it in the first place.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Why do you suppose award winning, best selling authors (Lois McMaster Bujold, David Drake, Eric Flint, and John Ringo among others)

No need to suppose, here's Eric Flint telling us why:
http://baen.com/library/

Note he calls piracy immoral, and note the authors choose to participate or not. There are people here who seem to think that they should be able to make that choice for any book or author they happen to feel like reading.

It's GREAT when authors give books away! It's bad when people take them without permission. It's worse when they argue that they are doing a Good Thing for the author when they do.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

Legality isn't the issue here, though. The effects on authors are the issue.

I disagree, I think the damage of having your legal right trod upon, and the perceived value of your work diminished, are just as much at issue as raw dollars, but even aside from that, the only way a library could reasonably be considered here is if every library had an unlimited number of copies, and gave them out to any one who wanted one, to keep indefinitely.

And they don't, so even the POTENTIAL 'damage' is not worth mentioning in this context.

But more to the point, we, as a society, decided that lending libraries are of value to society, so we create them and support them, and in doing so, authors agree to accept the small potential 'lost' sales from them.

And they pay for the books they acquire and lend, because we as a society decided that intellectual property like books have value, and that value should be protected by laws, which sometimes means paying for them.

[J. Strnad]

I gave up on this thread about halfway through, but I was intrigued by Steven Lyle Jordan's comments.

I, too, write for money. I've wanted to be a professional writer and make my living from writing since I was about 12 or 14.

Writing is hard, lonely work. Marketing your work is even harder. At any given moment, there are probably 10, 20, 100 things I'd rather do...including nothing...than write.

My book makes me about $100/month on Amazon, more or less (okay, often less). It's hard to make myself sit down and write another book for $100/month. If I knew that when I finished it I'd get a check for $100,000, I'd be up before dawn hitting the keyboard! But ebook sales...uhm, not so much.

I'm "working" on another one, but I'm taking my time. It'll happen if I don't get hit by a truck first, but there's no rush. Because the fact is, I can enjoy this idea all by myself without lifting a finger. If other people want to enjoy it, they need to give me some incentive to put in the hundreds of hours of work it'll take to make it available to them.

So I've adopted the NPR model: I'll get sales from the people who care enough to pay three bucks for my book. Many others will mooch it for free--screw 'em, I don't care. My audience is the people who pay the three bucks. It isn't much. I went for coffee with a co-worker and she dropped $7 for a coffee and a snack. A book that gives you several hours of entertainment is worth $3, easy.

I'm just delighted right now that my book is available after being out of print for six years. There's no more work involved, so the money is gravy. I'm happy about it! But like Jordan says, there's not a compelling financial reason to make more books. I will, probably, but as a hobby, not as a profession. Maybe when I retire and have more time.

I don't blame the pirates so much, though, as I do the simple fact that there's a helluva lot of books out there. Pretty soon living authors will be competing with every book that's ever been printed. Fact of life. Supply and demand.

You want to make good money, learn to weld.

[caleb72]

Hi Jan,

How do you pronounce your last name?

I just had a look at your site and the comment about Risen being a supernatural thriller rather than a blood and guts horror interested me. I've put you on my wish list.

Regards
Caleb

[NVash]

I just want to say that 'Risen' is amazing. I went to the site and downloaded the free prequel and loved every second of it. I bought the full book and, while I have yet to read it, I know I have a pleasurable story awaiting me. It was well worth the money.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by ApK

But more to the point, we, as a society, decided that lending libraries are of value to society, so we create them and support them, and in doing so, authors agree to accept the small potential 'lost' sales from them.

And they pay for the books they acquire and lend, because we as a society decided that intellectual property like books have value, and that value should be protected by laws, which sometimes means paying for them.

So you just disregard those who think otherwise? Even though their numbers have been growing exponentially for years? Mostly due to those born digital and those who accept the digital post birth. We don't think authors shouldn't be paid, we just see all your payment methods as archaic and not flowing the monies to where they need to be flowed.

Some people just don't want to pay for books, they would rather buy pizzas and beer, that's cool too. If you don't want to write anymore because of these people not paying for your books???

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

You want to make good money, learn to weld.

Marion Zimmer Bradley reportedly had a sign over her desk reminding her "Nobody ever told you not to be a plumber."

[Anke Wehner]

Originally Posted by carld

No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.

--- Samuel Johnson

Famous and often repeated quote.

Well, that explains why fanfiction is dominated by girls and women.

@Steven: If you like writing as a hobby, you could try getting a free blog and writing serial fiction or short stories without trying to sell, just for the feedback. (And maybe a tipjar.)
Which doesn't solve the problem if you're looking for a "hobby" to earn extra money, but would let you write as a hobby without having to pay for hosting and ebook covers, and would save time with the formatting.

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I can't say that's impossible, but it seems very counter to human nature [to later buy what you first got for free illegally]. The most rational thing to do, if you've already got an e-book, is just read it and go on with your life.

Eh. The first ebook I bought was a collection of short stories the author put on his deviantart account where I read them for free.
Last month I dropped $15 in the paypal tipjar of a writer putting series of flash fiction I loved on her blog.

If that makes me inhuman... well, cool. :P

I've seen authors use "If you enjoy my book, you should pay for it!" as argument against piracy... I agree. I also note that that isn't a good argument against the subset of piracy that's used as free sampling, because the corrolary is "I should not have to pay for a book if I don't know if I enjoy it".

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Baen has been putting CDs of authors books in certain released hardback editions. Those CDs are available for free, with Baen's knowledge and permission at The Fifth Imperium. Why do you suppose award winning, best selling authors (Lois McMaster Bujold, David Drake, Eric Flint, and John Ringo among others) can be convinced to give away their books for free? Could it be that Baen has shown these authors that sometimes giving away stuff for free ultimately means greater *sales*?

Well... Lois McMaster Bujold said something to the effect that this seemed a better idea in the first decade of the millenium, when ebooks were more of a sample for paper books, and the current rise of ereading devices makes the usefulness of giving away whole backlists more doubtful. (I'd think it's probably a better - or less bad - idea for authors who add to series at a clip of a book per year or more.)

[boxcorner]

Originally Posted by BenBanned

... Not to mention I am never paying for an e-book the concept seems absurd to me, most of time I could just wait a few days and get a hardcopy for the same price.

I think it depends on how someone feels about books. If they read a lot of novels then they're probably used to tossing it at the end, whereas someone who tends to mostly read non-fiction would probably be more inclined to keep the book for future reference, if it was a hardcopy.

My book buying habits haven't changed since I got my reader; I still buy just as many p-books. It seems to me that they are intrinsically more valuable, probably because I want to keep them after reading, I can lend them, or could give them away if I want to. Whereas I feel that e-books are just another form of the book - an extension of the book - which is more convenient in some ways, but less so in others. So, overall, I feel that p-books are more valuable than e-books, therefore I would expect to pay less for an e-book version. In some cases a lot less.

For example, an e-book version of a lavishly illustrated colour p-book wouldn't provide the same experience on my monochrome reader. So the e-book would be worth a lot less to me. Sure there are devices that can display colour, but my chosen reader is monochrome. There's not much added value in an e-book, compared with its paper version, or at least not sufficient to make up the perceived value difference - for me at least.

However, it isn't just the typos and layout issues that make e-books feel less valuable, but it also has something to do with their durability and practicality. If an e-book isn't really mine, when I buy it, if my ability to read it depends on the viability of my reader or the publisher, if I'm not allowed to lend it to a friend, or give it away, then all these things - for me at least - make e-books seem considerably less valuable. DRM is a repellent, so far as I am concerned.

I have read both legally downloaded free e-books and DRM-free commercial ones. It terms of the reading experience, both seem remarkably similar. All right, perhaps the DRM-free commercial ones contained fewer typos, but overall their perceived value was pretty much the same.

So, I am left with the feeling the e-books are worth less than p-books. In some cases considerably less. I wouldn't dream of stealing a hardcopy, but understand why some people are tempted to pirate e-versions, particularly those which are geo-restricted. If I walk into a bookstore at an airport and buy a hardcopy, I can take with me anywhere, I can lend it, give it away, or keep it forever.

There are people who will always pirate, and those who do so to overcome minor irritations and inconveniences. I think it's important to distinguish between the two. It seems to me that the already struggling publishing industry is not doing itself any favours by alienating those who would otherwise buy e-books, but for the DRM or geo-restrictions.

[RichL]

Don't know what the answer is, do know that Cory Doctorow and various other authors give away ebooks as well as sells printed books with the same title.

I do believe in supporting authors so when I download a (possibly illegal) ebook I browse through it and delete it if it is of no interest. If I keep the book I purchase a hard copy from the local book store.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by ApK

That's not true. The damages might be hard to prove in a lawsuit, and of course, we'd need one of Mr. Ploppy's wormholes to get real numbers, but despite all the rationalizations, it is a fact there are people who will take stuff for free, if they want it and don't think they'll be punished, and can get it easily, rather than pay for it, and who would give in and pay for it if they can't. These are potential sales lost. The fact that other kinds of pirates also exist in no way means that this kind does not, and no rationalization about giving the author free publicity changes it.

ApK

Like with the people who go on to buy new books after reading an unauthorised download, those people will be just a small percentage of the total number of downloaders. The vast majority of downloaders are just collecting files for the sake of having them. Most will never even be read, never mind paid for.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

I can't say that's impossible, but it seems very counter to human nature. The most rational thing to do, if you've already got an e-book, is just read it and go on with your life. Where you might get a benefit, as an author, is if someone reads a free copy of your work and decides to go out and buy something else you wrote. But that's a pretty big gamble, considering the fact that the person almost certainly has a source they can get any book of yours for free (i.e., the place they got the first one from).

They can, but not very often within a few weeks of release. Unlike comics, games, films, etc which are always available within a few hours of release (and sometimes before release). If someone really likes your writing they will want to read it straight away, not wait. It's like the people who buy hardbacks instead of waiting for a second hand paperback.

People who read for free are also a lot less likely to write negative reviews. If they don't like it they won't get much more than a few pages into it and move on to something else. Whereas if they paid for it they will persevere with it to get their money's worth, then tell the whole world how bad your book is and how much they hate you for making them waste their money.

[kennyc]

So then what do we do, make the internet a pay-per-bit entity and pay out royalties to all content providers based on some algorithm?

No free downloads that way.