Authors and readers unite! Let's solve the problem together...

[ondabeach]

Originally Posted by Richard Herley

Does anyone else think this might work?

Great idea, I saw the same idea floated recently in another thread. My vote for the independant site would be MR.

It could be set up as a forum here where the reviews could be posted by authorized members. They could either be posted by coming to MR or they could be posted programatically from authorized (participating) eBook library sites. These remotely posted reviews would be reviews that one of the 'authorized contributors' has found on a participating site and considers worthy of inclusion. The mechanics of this are a snap, I would love to add add that functionality to ZuluExpress if the idea gets off the ground.

If the initiative is administered by MR then it's integrity will be beyond question.

I'm sure the guys at smashwords would be in too.

Let's here some more on this.

[rhadin]

Originally Posted by starrigger

The geographical restrictions probably are a result of book contracts giving Publisher the right to publish in certain geographical areas, withholding foreign rights for the agent to try to sell in other areas. It's not a restriction the publishers want; it's for the author's benefit. Ebooks, of course, make a hash of this logic. But it's a lot of work to change old contracts, even if all parties are willing. I think the best course is to get people thinking about doing it differently with new contracts.

This is exactly correct. And don't forget that authors and their agents will want more money for worldwide rights which will increase the publisher's costs and the retail price.

[Richard Herley]

Originally Posted by ondabeach

Let's here some more on this.

Thanks, ondabeach. We really need a single site, reliable and unbiased, the obvious place for people to go to look for new books. The reviews out there already (at LibraryThing, Goodreads, Feedbooks, Manybooks, etc.) could perhaps be incorporated, but it might be tricky tracing all those reviewers to get permission to reproduce their work.

Professional reviewing is a bit of a treadmill. At the moment, critics tend to be badly paid, and they often have to read whatever literary editors give them. Some critics are also authors who simply use reviews to boost their pals or get their own back on enemies. We would need to scrub all that, let the pro. critics choose the books they want to review, and pay them decently. A bonus could be earned for a review which is sufficiently highly rated by registered users. If the reviewer is also an author, he/she should be encouraged openly to declare whatever allegiances were at stake -- this would make the reviews even more entertaining and increase the ratings.

But I see the bulk of reviews coming from the readers, who could also be paid the bonus. The comments on each review could form a discussion thread in which the authors should be encouraged to take part, defending themselves if necessary or blushingly accepting praise. This would be a huge departure from present practice: it's considered infra dig to comment on your own reviews, and especially infra dig to empty a plate of linguini over a hostile reviewer's head if you spot him in a restaurant!

Besides the review system, you could have a simple "star-rating" which readers could apply, once only, to an individual title. So you'd be able to search the database for "most highly rated", "best reviews", and "most commented on reviews". By providing filters for "genre", "format", "price", etc., would-be readers should quickly be able to find something of interest.

Just a few thoughts. I perceive this as the perfect time to start such a site, before e-reading really takes off. If there are many review sites, each offering a slightly different approach, the benefit for readers and indeed authors, not to mention for the site owners, will be much reduced.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by Richard Herley

Thanks, ondabeach. We really need a single site, reliable and unbiased, the obvious place for people to go to look for new books. The reviews out there already (at LibraryThing, Goodreads, Feedbooks, Manybooks, etc.) could perhaps be incorporated, but it might be tricky tracing all those reviewers to get permission to reproduce their work.

Professional reviewing is a bit of a treadmill. At the moment, critics tend to be badly paid, and they often have to read whatever literary editors give them. Some critics are also authors who simply use reviews to boost their pals or get their own back on enemies. We would need to scrub all that, let the pro. critics choose the books they want to review, and pay them decently. A bonus could be earned for a review which is sufficiently highly rated by registered users. If the reviewer is also an author, he/she should be encouraged openly to declare whatever allegiances were at stake -- this would make the reviews even more entertaining and increase the ratings.

But I see the bulk of reviews coming from the readers, who could also be paid the bonus. The comments on each review could form a discussion thread in which the authors should be encouraged to take part, defending themselves if necessary or blushingly accepting praise. This would be a huge departure from present practice: it's considered infra dig to comment on your own reviews, and especially infra dig to empty a plate of linguini over a hostile reviewer's head if you spot him in a restaurant!

Besides the review system, you could have a simple "star-rating" which readers could apply, once only, to an individual title. So you'd be able to search the database for "most highly rated", "best reviews", and "most commented on reviews". By providing filters for "genre", "format", "price", etc., would-be readers should quickly be able to find something of interest.

Just a few thoughts. I perceive this as the perfect time to start such a site, before e-reading really takes off. If there are many review sites, each offering a slightly different approach, the benefit for readers and indeed authors, not to mention for the site owners, will be much reduced.

All you really need is a Reddit clone with an upvote/downvote system and that would keep it as honest as can be (at least initially). Pick a name, something like Readr (people seem to like stuff with vowels missing) and go from there. Shit, I've got a web-domain that's pretty much going unused at fictionmonster.com if anybody wants to use that to trial this thing.

My main concern with any system or site of this kind is that it be open, and not moderated. With moderation comes bias, and with bias the reviews become less and less honest (as we can see now with most professional book reviewers who are owned by corporate interests).

Make it democratic, make it a community, and you're onto something. If all it does is try to recreate the terrible hierarchies of the old reviewing system or become a haven for 'buy-my-book spam' (incidentally one of the reasons I don't bother much with Writers' Corner any longer) then it will fail miserably.

[ondabeach]

Hmmm, didn't think of the copyright issue regarding the reviews Richard.

Pingggggg. That was the sound of a penny dropping. You're saying it should be a professional site where people get paid.

Oh dear. there's a bit of a problem there, actually a few.

Firstly, it would take a lot longer to set up. Not the mechanics of the site but the infrastructure behind it.

The real deal breaker for me and I'm sure millions of others, is that if there's money and people involved then corruption will ensue.

There's no way a start up entity could get it's shit together and actually become, not just start a campaign to become a household name.

I would never ever believe a word on a review site where I knew they needed to have financial affiliates, and they would, in order to keep the paycheques coming. I would take the word of a fellow member of a community like MR because most likely they would have a history of posts and karma to judge the worth of their opinion by.

I agree that we need this thing now, not later.


To boil this down, think about this.

If you are given two eBook review sources to choose from:

The first being a Forum in MR where you can research a reviewer to your heart's content. Where you are reading the opinions of a community of like minded people who give their few minutes here and there to spread the joy of reading.

Second, an essentially corporate site where the mighty dollar is a deciding factor in it's day to day routine. A place where you are reading what someone is being paid to write.

Hmmmmmm, bit of a no-brainer me thinks!

Come on let's just do it. Set up just one more forum called, gee, oh I don't know, "eBook Reviews" maybe

Reviews could be posted by any MR member, or maybe anyone at all. I know that it is usually best to forgo quantity in the belief that will lead you to quality but in the case of reviews on something I want to read I reckon the more the merrier. Multiple reviews makes it easier to spot the genuine ones imho.

As far as the reproduction rights of reviews already out there go, that would be up to the participating library sites to sort with their members. Certainly any new reviews would be posted under revised conditions and the reviewer would do so knowing that a copy of the review would also be posted on MR.

I can tell you that library sites would fall all over themselves to participate, at least those with nothing to hide or fear. I for one am jumping out of my skin over the idea

[Richard Herley]

I know what you're saying, but to do this properly would need more than volunteer effort. There would be so many reviews, and comments on reviews, and discussions, and whatnot, that it would be impossible to find what you're looking for without some fairly heavy-duty IT skills behind the scenes.

MobileRead already has a review section, in the Wiki, where I see carandol has already given the treatment to one of mine. No reason why we shouldn't start adding our own reviews and comments, and maybe in time the data there can be presented in a more conveniently searchable way.

An appeal to everybody: if you have posted reviews anywhere else, and you still own the copyright (as I'm pretty sure you will, though check the terms & conditions on the site where they're at), and if you have a spare moment, why not cross-post them here?

[BillSmithBooks]

I agree with the above sentiments...

The biggest issue with ebooks is the difficulty in replicating the serendipity of just stumbling across a new book while browsing in a brick and mortar store...and yet the Internet, via sites like Digg and Reddit, show that people LOVE this kind of "grazing"

The power in the ebook market is going to come from the first site or two that can create a "Digg for Ebooks": Combine the community of LibraryThing.com and similiar sites, thoughtful discussion a la MobileRead.com, and add in the "what's new and cool" "news" functions of the social news sites like Digg and Reddit, all integrated with easy shopping.

That is the "killer app" for publishing's future, IMO. Help me find great books, great bargains, discuss with others great reads from the past, and let me get up to speed on what's new and exciting...

[Assassin]

Besides the review system, you could have a simple "star-rating" which readers could apply, once only, to an individual title. So you'd be able to search the database for "most highly rated", "best reviews", and "most commented on reviews". By providing filters for "genre", "format", "price", etc., would-be readers should quickly be able to find something of interest. Per Richard Herley's post.
Smashwords already has a written review and star rating system and search criteria in place, but few readers will take the time to participate. I think it has to do with today's culture of being politically correct and not offending anyone. My book "Reverse Metamorphosis" had 618 downloads when it was free, but only three people returned to rate it. I even implore readers at the end of the story to go back and post a review to no avail.
The people in this forum will participate in the review and rating process but is that enough eyes to be meaningful?

[elcreative]

Probably not as this thread was last posted to in February 2010 until you resurrected it...

Originally Posted by Assassin

The people in this forum will participate in the review and rating process but is that enough eyes to be meaningful?

[Giggleton]

It appears that we want our reviews to be as highly indexed as our books. I suppose it's possible and maybe even probable.

[CommonReader]

Geo-restrictions are massively annoying. However, I also see the problems of the publishing industry and the authors.
What is the right price for a book? A price that fits markets as different as India and the US, Spain and Guatemala?
What will happen when exchange rates shift massively? This even happens with the world's two heavyweight currencies, the Dollar and the Euro. What is supposed to happen when a book is published for about the same price in countries A and B and the currency of country A then depreciates by 40% against the currency of country B? How are distributors in country B supposed to compete?

[Steven Lyle Jordan]

All of this discussion, based around a thread that was titled "Maybe we should be hurting the authors"?

Me, I may just follow Emily Dickenson's example.

[elcreative]

And even better, a thread that nobody could be bothered with for fourteen months untill resurrection a couple of days ago...

Originally Posted by Steven Lyle Jordan

All of this discussion, based around a thread that was titled "Maybe we should be hurting the authors"?

Me, I may just follow Emily Dickenson's example.