Classic Now that Kindle will support Public Libraries lending, is or not an option for you?

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by kennyc

You call it competition, I call it fragmentation. Just like betamax and vhs, just like dvd and blue-ray. Regardless of what you call it, it is not good for the consumer.

The more competition, the better prices you get. It happened to Nook, Kindle and even tablets.

And the VHS vs Betamax argument, that people keep using all the time, is not valid. That was a hardware issue, not software. We're talking about software here (ebook formats) Betamax failed not because was a bad format (the quality was great) but because did not allow long time recording. We can't apply the same concept here because the differences between mobi and epub are just a few, and provides exact results on non complex books. It can even be improved later, because mobi, like epub, are software implementation, not hardware devices. Software is easier to develop and fix than a pure hardware solution.

We, as users, read for pleasure (or to learn something), but companies sell for money, they are not making us any favor, it is business. At the end, the strongest will survive.

Life is not fair, but this is about business. There are a lot of money involved on ebooks and ereaders.

But going back to the main topic, which is if you will think about getting a Kindle now that will support public libraries lending, I guess your answer is no.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by jocampo

The more competition, the better prices you get. It happened to Nook, Kindle and even tablets.

And the VHS vs Betamax argument, that people keep using all the time, is not valid. That was a hardware issue, not software. We're talking about software here (ebook formats) Betamax failed not because was a bad format (the quality was great) but because did not allow long time recording. We can't apply the same concept here because the differences between mobi and epub are just a few, and provides exact results on non complex books. It can even be improved later, because mobi, like epub, are software implementation, not hardware devices. Software is easier to develop and fix than a pure hardware solution.

We, as users, read for pleasure (or to learn something), but companies sell for money, they are not making us any favor, it is business. At the end, the strongest will survive.

Life is not fair, but this is about business. There are a lot of money involved on ebooks and ereaders.

But going back to the main topic, which is if you will think about getting a Kindle now that will support public libraries lending, I guess your answer is no.

Sorry but I have to correct you the comparison to beta/vhs is entirely applicable. It is irrelevant whether it hardware or software. The point is to fragment the market and restrict consumers choices to only a particular business's format.That is NOT COMPETITION, competition is when there is a level playing ground, that is not the case here.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Sorry but I have to correct you the comparison to beta/vhs is entirely applicable. It is irrelevant whether it hardware or software. The point is to fragment the market and restrict consumers choices to only a particular business's format. It is NOT COMPETITION, competition is when there is a level playing ground, that is not the case here.

People keep comparing Beta vs VHS to awz vs mobi. Those were hardware issues, not software. But at the end, it was a competition and market issue. Sony failed to please users to what they wanted and did not adjust their implementation. So JVC won. Again, this is business. Sony was just stubborn in changing, even when they noticed that most movie makers and Hollywood were asking for longer recording times (some sites and investigations also mention a push from porn industry, but that's not confirmed)

But If your point is that the market is fragmented because so many ebook choices, then all USA products are fragmented as well, because we have so many choices and so many alternatives. The reality is that because B&N, Kindle low their reader prices, and because Kindle 3, B&N hit back with Nook Color. And because Nook Color, other companies came into scene too with devices like: Pandigital, Velocity, Galaxy Tab, etc, etc.

I actually prefer a fragmented market (to use your word) than one with one only solution, a forced one.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by jocampo

People keep comparing Beta vs VHS to awz vs mobi. Those were hardware issues, not software. But at the end, it was a competition and market issue. Sony failed to please users to what they wanted and did not adjust their implementation. So JVC won. Again, this is business. Sony was just stubborn in changing, even when they noticed that most movie makers and Hollywood were asking for longer recording times (some sites and investigations also mention a push from porn industry, but that's not confirmed)

But If your point is that the market is fragmented because so many ebook choices, then all USA products are fragmented as well, because we have so many choices and so many alternatives. The reality is that because B&N, Kindle low their reader prices, and because Kindle 3, B&N hit back with Nook Color. And because Nook Color, other companies came into scene too with devices like: Pandigital, Velocity, Galaxy Tab, etc, etc.

I actually prefer a fragmented market (to use your word) than one with one only solution, a forced one.

You clearly do not understand the difference in competition and fragmentation.

P.S. the comparison is not azw and mobi, but azw and epub.

[chas0039]

Originally Posted by jocampo

That is not true, please read the news.

As a matter of fact, there is will be no extra cost on the implementation and exact details of which format will be used has not being showed yet.

The problem is not the Kindle; the Kindle is a nice and good solution, is the bestselling ereader in USA. The main issue is the stupid DRM among companies. A regular novel reads exactly the same in epub or mobi.

It looks as though you might think I have something against Kindle or be a supporter of Nook. If you read my posts, you would see that is far from the truth. I have a lot of issues with Nook and won't be buying another. Kindle had no SD card, no interchangeable battery, and no epub ( I am not converting 1300 titles) so they were DOA. I prefer the Jetbook as they just work and meet all the basic criteria without forcing me to do it their way.

As I said in the other thread, I am sure that my library will reconsider if there is a demand, however, Amazon has chosen a very, very, expensive and convoluted way to solve a problem that they created by dumping on the epub format. This is a free market. They can do that if they want, and I will buy someone else's product. If millions of other people are happy, and so am I why should I care about Amazon acting like Apple, other than in passing.

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by kennyc

Sorry but I have to correct you the comparison to beta/vhs is entirely applicable. It is irrelevant whether it hardware or software. The point is to fragment the market and restrict consumers choices to only a particular business's format.That is NOT COMPETITION, competition is when there is a level playing ground, that is not the case here.

Unfortunately, there is not a really level playing field even with epub as the only option, due to all the different drm systems in play (and Apple's mods to epub).

[vaughnmr]

Originally Posted by chas0039

Amazon has chosen a very, very, expensive and convoluted way to solve a problem that they created by dumping on the epub format. This is a free market. They can do that if they want, and I will buy someone else's product. If millions of other people are happy, and so am I why should I care about Amazon acting like Apple, other than in passing.

Amazon was around long before the epub format came around.

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by kennyc

You clearly do not understand the difference in competition and fragmentation.

P.S. the comparison is not azw and mobi, but azw and epub.

We will have to agree to disagree. Because I think that you call fragmentation to what I call business and market.

And will say something on this post that later we both can go back and check: I see ePub dying as the format we both know in about 3 to 5 years and most publishers adopting mobi as their favorite one Why? because most of the USA market is dominated by Amazon right now. Not sure about Europe or other countries though, but I don't see any important reason, after this news, in choosing ePub over azw or mobi, not after this deal.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by jocampo

We will have to agree to disagree. Because I think that you call fragmentation to what I call business and market.

And will say something on this post that later we both can go back and check: I see ePub dying as the format we both know in about 3 to 5 years and most publishers adopting mobi as their favorite one Why? because most of the USA market is dominated by Amazon right now. Not sure about Europe or other countries though, but I don't see any important reason, after this news, in choosing ePub over azw or mobi, not after this deal.

It'll never happen. The opposite will happen. Amazon will eventually come around to reality. It's already happening with the topic of this thread.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jocampo

The fact is that the layout and rendering of a regular novel is exactly the same on epub or mobi. There is no benefit of one other the other. Actually, azw has better and higher compression, so the file is smaller.

I disagree. ePub is the smaller file size overall. ePub is ZIP compressed text (mostly). And give standard Mobipocket compression and normal ZIP compression, ePub wins.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by vaughnmr

Unfortunately, there is not a really level playing field even with epub as the only option, due to all the different drm systems in play (and Apple's mods to epub).

But given that Apple caused the agency 6 to exist and they do odd things with ePub in iBooks, we may as well just ignore iBooks.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by jocampo

We will have to agree to disagree. Because I think that you call fragmentation to what I call business and market.

And will say something on this post that later we both can go back and check: I see ePub dying as the format we both know in about 3 to 5 years and most publishers adopting mobi as their favorite one Why? because most of the USA market is dominated by Amazon right now. Not sure about Europe or other countries though, but I don't see any important reason, after this news, in choosing ePub over azw or mobi, not after this deal.

World wide, ePub is the #1 format. And I do feel it will continue to be the #1 format. Amazon is trying to break things with AZW and they won't win in the long run.

Amazon had a chance to win when Sony wanted to add Mobipocket. That was when Amazon blew it big time and let ePub win.

[Asawi]

Originally Posted by jocampo

because most of the USA market is dominated by Amazon right now. Not sure about Europe or other countries though, but I don't see any important reason, after this news, in choosing ePub over azw or mobi, not after this deal.

Well, you certainly proved you don't know anything about the world outside of USA. And, contrary to popular belief, there IS a world outside USA. And, believe it or not, literacy is widespread even here! Amazon isn't though.

Since the Nook (this is after all the Nook section) is a US thing though, I suspect they might suffer unless they decide to widen their geographical base.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by Asawi

....And, believe it or not, literacy is widespread even here!....

[jocampo]

Originally Posted by Asawi

Well, you certainly proved you don't know anything about the world outside of USA. And, contrary to popular belief, there IS a world outside USA. And, believe it or not, literacy is widespread even here! Amazon isn't though.

Since the Nook (this is after all the Nook section) is a US thing though, I suspect they might suffer unless they decide to widen their geographical base.

Read my post, please. I said in USA.

By the way, I live in USA, but I am not from USA. I traveled a lot and fully aware of the situation.

And for your information, Latin countries barely use or have public libraries with electronic lending features; as a matter of fact, ereaders in general are not wide spread, not like in Europe maybe. Kindle is one of the few popular devices in South America, hence azw as a format. But we can discuss that on a different thread, that's not the main topic of this one.