Dune Messiah ($25 vs $8)

[Greg Anos]

Dennis, I agree about proofreading. Here are two answers. There may be others.

Answer #1 - Request the person scanning do the proofreading. After all, if <your> name is going to be associated with the e-book (scan and proof credit), you have a real incentive to do a good job. Who would want a credit line (scanned and proofed by X) and then another line (reproofed by Y)? Or even worse, somebody cursing your name for a lousy job done.

Answer #2 - Have the author (or heirs or assigns) proof the initial scan and proof. After all, they are the ones who will be making money off the e-book, so they have an economic interest in a good quality product. In addition, validating galley proofs (which is what these are, in essence) has traditionally been the task of the author for p-books anyways.

I agree that Project Gutenberg has gotten better, but speaking as a scan contributor, it comes at a price. I have 3 books in process, and the oldest one has been in process for 11 months (to date) and it still hasn't made it out to the public. Frustrating.

Assuming the idea has merit, how would you get the ball rolling? I'm just a reader, and have no clue who to contact.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Dennis, I agree about proofreading. Here are two answers. There may be others.

Answer #1 - Request the person scanning do the proofreading. After all, if <your> name is going to be associated with the e-book (scan and proof credit), you have a real incentive to do a good job. Who would want a credit line (scanned and proofed by X) and then another line (reproofed by Y)? Or even worse, somebody cursing your name for a lousy job done.

I would certainly do that. What I could not assume was that it would be done well. Do you suppose the folks who contributed older, error-filed etexts to PG before DP took over deliberately sent error-ridden copy? Most of them probably thought they'd proofed it...

Once a volunteer had established a track record of submitting clean, error-free copy, I might modify my process for work from that volunteer, but they would have to establish that track record.

And in many cases, the original hard copy source has errors, which should really be corrected in the electronic edition, so simply insuring your electronic copy is a duplicate of the hard copy text isn't enough. Proofreading is a technical skill requiring a large vocabulary and knowledge of the grammar of the language which most folks lack. There are reasons why publishers pay professionals to do it. There will be things the most dedicated amateur proofreader won't catch because they won't know it's an error when they see it.

Answer #2 - Have the author (or heirs or assigns) proof the initial scan and proof. After all, they are the ones who will be making money off the e-book, so they have an economic interest in a good quality product. In addition, validating galley proofs (which is what these are, in essence) has traditionally been the task of the author for p-books anyways.

That happens as part of the process. The author gets galley proofs to examine and correct before the book goes to print.

The late John Brunner told an amusing story about that. He did an SF novel where he put in a number of deliberate usages that he knew a proofreader would want to "correct". So when he submitted the manuscript, he carefully marked it up, circling all such usages, and putting "STET!" in the margin to indicate the usage was deliberate. Sure enough, when he got the galleys, every instance had been "corrected". Apparently, the publisher had a proofreader who didn't know what STET! meant...

I agree that Project Gutenberg has gotten better, but speaking as a scan contributor, it comes at a price. I have 3 books in process, and the oldest one has been in process for 11 months (to date) and it still hasn't made it out to the public. Frustrating.

What scans?

Part of the problem is the nature of the process. PG and DP are volunteer operations. The stuff that gets attention is the stuff the volunteers want to work on. Contribute something obscure, and it may be a while before anyone with the enthusiasm for that topic comes along to work on it.

Assuming the idea has merit, how would you get the ball rolling? I'm just a reader, and have no clue who to contact.

I don't either. It depends on what is out there that might merit this approach, and who might wish to return it to publication.
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Dennis

[SpiderMatt]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

@ Spider Matt: At this stage in my life, am looking to mimise my belongings. As I am married and never have my boss over for dinner, there is no one to impress with my paper trophies stacked upon the shelves. I understand that some people feel otherwise, but I like reading the text and having it disapparate.

I definitely understand. I'm in the navy and I move around a lot. I have a small fraction of the books I own at my permanent duty station, the rest of them stored away. However, I've always wanted my own library. I love the smell, the look, the feel of paper books. So I have stockpiled books for years with this purpose in mind. At the moment, though, I carry around most of my books on my computer hard drives. I do the same for my movies and my comics and other types of media I simply cannot carry around with me every time I change duty stations or get deployed somewhere. So I can understand the desire to save space. For me, though, its always been about having my own mini-library someday when I'm settled in somewhere nice.

[Cthulhu]

Matt:


I can sympathise. I've worked on boats since I left college. Thankfully, most sailors/boaters are readers, and most boats have a decent library.

For years, I dreamt of a nice big room given over to the storage of books. These days, considering my career and foreseeable living conditions, a really nice chair and my PRS-500 is fine for me.

My wife might be doing her residency in Boston. That means prestigious job, *really* small condo. I like the promise of our new digital overlords.

@ Dennis:

Proofreading is important, and I can see it being very important to the company that distributes the work. Last night, finished reading The Call of Cthulhu on my Reader that I either got hear or was a Gutenberg text that I converted with LIBPRS. There were typos and bizarre spacings, but I know what ol' Phil was on about, so they did not matter.
However, I fear the mangling of original texts due to neglectful copy/scanning, the same way I lament the death of homonyms and correct use of grammar & cliches thanks to the internet and poor education.

"To be or not too br" We all get the notion, but it really lacks some of Shakespeare's original punch.
;-

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Cthulhu

For years, I dreamt of a nice big room given over to the storage of books. These days, considering my career and foreseeable living conditions, a really nice chair and my PRS-500 is fine for me.

I knew a chap some years ago who was a book dealer. He built a two story extension to his house to hold his stock. It was about what I wanted to have in a library, but didn't expect to be able to do it. (I live midtown in a large city -- no place to build such an extension...)

@ Dennis:

Proofreading is important, and I can see it being very important to the company that distributes the work. Last night, finished reading The Call of Cthulhu on my Reader that I either got hear or was a Gutenberg text that I converted with LIBPRS. There were typos and bizarre spacings, but I know what ol' Phil was on about, so they did not matter.
However, I fear the mangling of original texts due to neglectful copy/scanning, the same way I lament the death of homonyms and correct use of grammar & cliches thanks to the internet and poor education.

"To be or not too br" We all get the notion, but it really lacks some of Shakespeare's original punch. ;-

Agreed. One thing that pleases me is the efforts of folks like HarryT to go back and make corrected editions of some of this stuff that was poorly proofed when first created. Of course, it requires someone like HarryT with a love for that particular content who wants to see it as perfect as possible and is willing to contribute the time and effort. I'm afraid some poorly proofed stuff will languish because there won't be anyone who wants to take on the task of fixing it.
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Dennis

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Agreed. One thing that pleases me is the efforts of folks like HarryT to go back and make corrected editions of some of this stuff that was poorly proofed when first created. Of course, it requires someone like HarryT with a love for that particular content who wants to see it as perfect as possible and is willing to contribute the time and effort. I'm afraid some poorly proofed stuff will languish because there won't be anyone who wants to take on the task of fixing it.
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Dennis

The PG version of "Oliver Twist" really is dire. Not only are there many hundreds of typos in it, but I discovered, when I proofed it against a printed version, that there were dozens of cases in which the typist (it was an early PG contribution, hence manually typed in) had skipped sentences (largely in passages of dialogue), several omitted paragraphs, and one case where about half a page of text had been left out!

That's why, for the books which were typed rather than scanned, to get a decent copy I think it's important to proof it against the printed book, rather than simply correct the obvious errors in the eBook.

Unfortunately it was the most "famous" classics which (naturally) tended to get added to PG first, so they are often the books which are in the worst shape. The current stuff, being added by DP, is pretty good.

[DaleDe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

The PG version of "Oliver Twist" really is dire. Not only are there many hundreds of typos in it, but I discovered, when I proofed it against a printed version, that there were dozens of cases in which the typist (it was an early PG contribution, hence manually typed in) had skipped sentences (largely in passages of dialogue), several omitted paragraphs, and one case where about half a page of text had been left out!

That's why, for the books which were typed rather than scanned, to get a decent copy I think it's important to proof it against the printed book, rather than simply correct the obvious errors in the eBook.

Unfortunately it was the most "famous" classics which (naturally) tended to get added to PG first, so they are often the books which are in the worst shape. The current stuff, being added by DP, is pretty good.

Can some of these corrections be fed back to PG to fix these older books?

Dale

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Can some of these corrections be fed back to PG to fix these older books?

Dale

I think, to be honest, the best thing to do would be to re-submit them via DP. That would catch far more errors than I've done, I'm sure. I'm afraid I don't know the process for doing that. Anyone else know?

[JSWolf]

Fictionwise is giving a 100% micropay rebate on Dune Messiah. I kjow the price is $24.95, but you can then turn around and use that money for other eBooks from Fictionwise.

http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook63936.htm?cache

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I think, to be honest, the best thing to do would be to re-submit them via DP. That would catch far more errors than I've done, I'm sure. I'm afraid I don't know the process for doing that. Anyone else know?

I don't believe you submit to DP. You submit to PG, and PG passes to DP for proofing. I think you need to query PG about getting corrected older texts re-proofed by DP. PG's upload page for new books is probably a good starting point.

http://upload.pglaf.org/
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Dennis

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Fictionwise is giving a 100% micropay rebate on Dune Messiah. I kjow the price is $24.95, but you can then turn around and use that money for other eBooks from Fictionwise.

http://www.fictionwise.com/eBooks/eBook63936.htm?cache

Thanks! I have stopped buying DRM content since switching to my N800 but I still have the nx73v (gotta have it as it's my first plus it does NYT xword puzzles!!) so I might make an exception...oh, wait this is the internet so I will make a acception.

[moz]

Darn, Fictionwise seemed like a useful place to buy content from, but if the content isn't portable they can forget it. Bah! I've been burned too many times by loss of support for accessing DRM'd content.

Back on topic Proofreading large amounts of material is always tedious, one thing I'm hoping for with the next generation of reading devices is markup facilities so that I can make (suggested) corrections to stuff as I'm reading it then submit them. And I suppose, correspondingly spend some time collating and applying corrections from others to works I have not read.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by moz

Darn, Fictionwise seemed like a useful place to buy content from, but if the content isn't portable they can forget it. Bah! I've been burned too many times by loss of support for accessing DRM'd content.

Depends on the exact content. A good bit of what Fictionwise offers is "Multi-format", which I think will meet your desire for portability. For the rest, if it's available in MS Reader format, it's portable, with a little third party assistance...
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Dennis

[JSWolf]

If you search the forum, you'll see how to strip away the DRM and be able to either use it in the format you've purchased without DRM or convert it to some other format you can use. So don't whine about the DRm when you can do something about it. But remember, if it's illegal where you live to strip DRM, then please don't do so.