Chung Kuo series by David Wingrove

[PKFFW]

Hiya all,

Anyone know anything about the planned re-release of this series? I hear a prequel has just been released and another is planned and then the 8 book series is being re-released with a new ending. Does anyone know if anything but the ending is going to be different in the re-releases?

I've heard good things about the series but never gotten around to reading it. For those who have read it, is it worth reading the series as is or do you think it would be worth it to wait for the prequels and re-releases?

Cheers,
PKFFW

[DiapDealer]

As far as I know, the ending is the only thing that's going to be reworked. The original books are going to be split into smaller chunks. I've never quite been able to figure out if there is/will be a way to map the old series to the new one such as: old book 2 = new book 4 & 5.

I liked it. It's a massive adventure with many convoluted political subplots and lots of court intrigue, but anyone who knows me, knows that my love for huge sprawling series started to wane several years ago. The "World-Building" in them annoys me (I want to build the world, so the author only needs to hint at it, I'll do the rest; thank you very much). If you love World Building and looooooong series, you'll probably enjoy Chung Kuo.

There's no need to wait on the re-releases. And in fact, the first prequel slightly spoils some things that happen early on in Book One, IMO. So I would recommend reading them in published order (I always do!)... save the prequels for last.

It needed a reworked ending badly. Wingrove had more books planned, but his publisher told him to wrap it up in book 8. I think they were seeing a drop-off in sales. You can imagine how rushed and awkward the final volume felt. But I'm not sure if the solution was to make it even longer.

The length will be daunting, but if that doesn't scare you, I say check it out. One warning though: it's not really a series that you can read one or two books, take a long break and come back to it later. There's quite a bit going on at any given time, so once you have the huge cast and all the various subplots straight in your head... it's best to just push on through. Instead of trying to get back into the swing of things later.

Wow! I wrote too much. Sorry for that.

[richvalle]

Wow, been a while since I thought about these books.

I REALLY liked the first books but gave up at the end and never finished them. I'm not sure at which book I quit... 7 or 8 I think. It just got too weird for me and it seemed like the series didn't know where it wanted to go. Or how to end.

rv

[DiapDealer]

I'm not sure at which book I quit... 7 or 8 I think. It just got too weird for me and it seemed like the series didn't know where it wanted to go. Or how to end.

Book eight was the last book, richvalle... and the weakest of the series by far. Many people stopped at book seven--but only because book eight was rather hard to find in print at the time.

Wingrove knew how he wanted to end the series... but his publisher at the time pulled rank and said; "wrap it up now... in this book." So the author's plan was preempted.

[richvalle]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Book eight was the last book, richvalle... and the weakest of the series by far. Many people stopped at book seven--but only because book eight was rather hard to find in print at the time.

Wingrove knew how he wanted to end the series... but his publisher at the time pulled rank and said; "wrap it up now... in this book." So the author's plan was preempted.

Whoops, I meant to say book 6-7.

It was quite a while ago. I'm sure I didn't finish it. Hmmm, let me see if I can figure out how to do the spoiler thing.

Spoiler:

Ahh, got it.

Ok from what I remember the book ended with a guy that had become the main opponent for the Empire (dang... I tried to look up the series in Wikipedia to get the name but nothing I think he started as head of secret police or something?) launching an invasion. At one point you think he's dead but then it turns out the whole thing had been done with a clone while he sat off safe in an asteroid somewhere building up a clone army and getting ready to invade.

So everything with him up to that point had just been a 'test'. Instead of thinking that was cool I just felt robbed somehow.

[PKFFW]

Thanks for the comments guys. I think I might go ahead and read the prequel just to see what his writing style is like. If I like it then I can go on to the rest of the series when I have time to sit and plow through it all in one go.

Cheers,
PKFFW

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by PKFFW

Thanks for the comments guys. I think I might go ahead and read the prequel just to see what his writing style is like. If I like it then I can go on to the rest of the series when I have time to sit and plow through it all in one go

Go for it! I've always thought Wingrove was under-appreciated.

@richvalle,

Spoiler:

Ok from what I remember the book ended with a guy that had become the main opponent for the Empire (dang... I tried to look up the series in Wikipedia to get the name but nothing I think he started as head of secret police or something?) launching an invasion. At one point you think he's dead but then it turns out the whole thing had been done with a clone while he sat off safe in an asteroid somewhere building up a clone army and getting ready to invade.

So everything with him up to that point had just been a 'test'. Instead of thinking that was cool I just felt robbed somehow.

Yeah, that's probably 4 or 5... it's been too long to recall. Howard DeVore is the devious bastard you're thinking of. The part you're remembering didn't really cheese me off, but you are right. It was a constant game of cat & mouse with DeVore and he always managed to find a way to elude capture; book after book after book.
I'll be honest... I had a love/hate relationship with the whole series, but I couldn't put it down either. When Wingrove was on his game... the plots were tight. Unfortunately, he had a habit of wandering, too.

[carpetmojo]

Ashamed to confess I never finished the "Dark Tower" series.

I like some Stephen King, and I really enjoyed the early books, but, rather like richvalle I suspect, I felt it was kind of running on vapour after 4/5.

I keep meaning to return to it, but somehow.................

[ I may well be, thinking about it, that I read Cormac McArthur's "The Road" around that time, which kind of spoiled me for post-apocalypse'ism. !
Now that is some book.... ]

[WillAdams]

For an explanation of why the ending needs to be re-worked, here's a review where it was felt that the final book was written by a ghost writer after the author was kidnapped:

http://januarymagazine.com/SFF/chungkuo.html

Also, there's apparently some really brutal sex early on (I bought most of the books, but lost interest before even beginning to try to read them after reading some reviews / commentary)

William

[DiapDealer]

Yep... there's sex and violence (sometimes combined) and taboo being broken. It's definitely not YA and there's no fluffy bunnies hopping through the forest either. But other than the ending (which will be fixed), there's some fantastic reading in there. Definitely avoid it if reading about the "seedy/dark side of humanity" makes you queasy (or offends you), though.

[PKFFW]

Well I don't mind a bit of sex and violence. hahaha

Though I did once draw the line and stop reading a book that was set in prison. Lets just say the male on male rape scene was a little too realistic and graphic for my taste! :shudders:

Cheers,
PKFFW

[richvalle]

Originally Posted by carpetmojo

Ashamed to confess I never finished the "Dark Tower" series.

I like some Stephen King, and I really enjoyed the early books, but, rather like richvalle I suspect, I felt it was kind of running on vapour after 4/5.

I keep meaning to return to it, but somehow.................

[ I may well be, thinking about it, that I read Cormac McArthur's "The Road" around that time, which kind of spoiled me for post-apocalypse'ism. !
Now that is some book.... ]

Oh man... I stopped reading that one too. I was having some sleeping issues at the time and I think it was making me a bit depressed. Trying to read the Dark Tower books didn't help. I think I stopped just before the last one but I had kind of lost steam before then.

[richvalle]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Go for it! I've always thought Wingrove was under-appreciated.

@richvalle,

Spoiler:

Yeah, that's probably 4 or 5... it's been too long to recall. Howard DeVore is the devious bastard you're thinking of. The part you're remembering didn't really cheese me off, but you are right. It was a constant game of cat & mouse with DeVore and he always managed to find a way to elude capture; book after book after book.
I'll be honest... I had a love/hate relationship with the whole series, but I couldn't put it down either. When Wingrove was on his game... the plots were tight. Unfortunately, he had a habit of wandering, too.

Well...

Spoiler:

Hah, I did remember his name started with a D. I tend to not read names except for the first letter and then the pattern of letters after that and I just recognize who it is. It's an ok tactic in most books but every now and then one comes along and throws me off.

I am kind of curious how/why the ending had to be changed. Maybe I'll try to go back and pick it up again... but there are so many other books out there... maybe not.

I'd try reading something else by him. I found the first books to be fascinating.

[richvalle]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

Yep... there's sex and violence (sometimes combined) and taboo being broken. It's definitely not YA and there's no fluffy bunnies hopping through the forest either. But other than the ending (which will be fixed), there's some fantastic reading in there. Definitely avoid it if reading about the "seedy/dark side of humanity" makes you queasy (or offends you), though.

I don't remember any of that bothering me at the time. I'm older now... maybe it would now.

[BenG]

I bought the first book when it came out in paperback.Then I realized it was the first book in a planned series, so I put it aside until the series was complete. Ten years later it still wasn't finished so I more or less forgot about it.