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[JSWolf]

I figure I'll just fix a few things as I see them while finishing the formatting and then I'll just fix things as a read them.

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That is a great way to put it. So what email address should we use to tell TOR of our dissatisfaction?

Maybe Dennis can point someone there to this thread. If they're serious about wanting to do good with ebooks you'd think they'd welcome feedback from people who use ebooks heavily.

Then again most publishers don't seem all that eager for feedback. I don't know where Tor falls, but hopefully in the wants feedback camp.

Maybe whoever is in charge of the ebook end would sign up here so we can interact with them. Or the staff here could set up a chat with them or something.



In the early days of DVD places like DVD Talk and Home Theater Forum got the studios involved in chats & forum participation. It got a lot of improvements into their latter DVDs and got some older titles released sooner rather than later. The studios realized that by tapping the early adopters for feedback they could build a better market.

[Magellan]

I just signed up late last night, and am hoping for the link today. Dennis, are you reading this on a Zodiac? I want to use it on mine hopefully in Mobipocket, but I can use the pdf viewer in Docs2go.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Magellan

I just signed up late last night, and am hoping for the link today. Dennis, are you reading this on a Zodiac? I want to use it on mine hopefully in Mobipocket, but I can use the pdf viewer in Docs2go.

I'm not reading the Tor freebie on the Zodiac just yet. I just did a quick conversion from PDF to Mobi using Mobi Creator, and I'm looking at the generated HTML. It's readable, but not really "production" quality. Creator did pretty well but made some bad guesses on things like paragraphs. I could deal with it for my own use, but wouldn't want to pass it along to anyone else.

What I will probably do is convert the HTML to Plucker format. When possible, I prefer to get HTML and use Plucker tio read it, and I have about 3,200 HTML volumes in Plucker format on my card.

I have Docs to Go, but removed PDFs to Go. I found Metaview Software's free, open source "PalmPDF" to be a better PDF viewer. Docs to Go is reserved here for Excel spreadsheets and the occasional Word document.

However, I read PDFs on the Zodiac only if there is no other option. For reasons discussed extensively here, PDFs aren't a good fit for handhelds.

Plucker is here: http://www.plkr.org

PalmPDF is here: http://www.metaviewsoft.de/en/Softwa...PDF/index.html

If you are on Windows, a good companion to Plucker is Rafael Fetzer's PDA Converter. PDA converter is a freeware GUI for the Plucker parser. It provides a handy way to select the desired options, then constructs the proper command line and calls the Plucker parser in the background to create the Plucker volume. (I use high compression, full color, full sized images linked to a thumbnail, and specify the file name, Plucker title, and Plucker category.) I just dropped the converted files in /Palm/Programs/Plucker on my card, invoke Plucker, do an Update Library, and off I go...

PDA Converter is here: http://www.jakewalk.de/wiki/pmwiki.p...e.PdaConverter
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

Maybe Dennis can point someone there to this thread. If they're serious about wanting to do good with ebooks you'd think they'd welcome feedback from people who use ebooks heavily.

I can try. First I have to find out just who needs to be pointed. That will take a bit.

Then again most publishers don't seem all that eager for feedback. I don't know where Tor falls, but hopefully in the wants feedback camp.

I'm pretty sure they want feedback. Tom Doherty is smart enough to understand that you sell by giving the customer what he wants. The question is where in the corporate hierarchy this is being done. Tor may be the imprint it is being done for, but Tor is probably not the ones actually doing it.

Maybe whoever is in charge of the ebook end would sign up here so we can interact with them. Or the staff here could set up a chat with them or something.

I'm going to ask around a bit and try to find out the proper people to lobby.

EDIT: Just dropped a note to a contact who is a Senior Editor at Tor. She was pleased by the feedback, and said she would forward my comments to the appropriate people when she was back in the office. We'll see.
______
Dennis

[curtw]

Originally Posted by dhbailey

You can do several different methods.

I used Acrobat to save it as a .txt file and as a .rtf file and then I ran them through libprs500. You can also run the PDF itself through libprs500 with no problems.

You might want to try all three and see which gives you the file size and the readability you want.

It's quick and easy.

It's even quicker and easier to load the PDF file itself through either Sony Library or libprs500. I've noticed that most of the people here complaining about the file format are using Sony hardware. The PDF looks absolutely fine on a PRS-505 with no conversion at all.

[curtw]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I was incorrect. Even Acrobat pro bungled some of the paragraphs. This is why I hate PDF eBooks. The conversions don't always work all that well.

What version of Acrobat are you using? I've got Acrobat 8, and tried it with Export to HTML 3. The only "flaw" was that it dropped the icons from the "Allomancy quick reference chart" at the end (probably because of them being in-line graphics). It chose a really weird 13.5-point font size that made the non-italics look like they were bolded, but that was a simple global change. it fully retained the single-character ligature for "fl," and I havent double-checkrd to see if it still displays properly on my reader, but looks good in MS Word.

Export to RTF, on the other hand, looks like garbage...

[carandol]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

That is a great way to put it. So what email address should we use to tell TOR of our dissatisfaction?

Well, that was a journey of discovery. Along the way, I found out that Tor has an Acquisitions Editor for Paranormal Romance. You live and learn.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an email address for Dissatisfied Customers. There are some contact addresses here: http://www.tor-forge.com/ContactUs.aspx

I guess the nearest thing would be to write to the Webmaster, since it's a sort of technical problem, though whether it would get to the person making the decisions about file formats is anybody's guess. At least the Webmaster would likely know what you were on about!

[mollybo]

Originally Posted by curtw

It's even quicker and easier to load the PDF file itself through either Sony Library or libprs500. I've noticed that most of the people here complaining about the file format are using Sony hardware. The PDF looks absolutely fine on a PRS-505 with no conversion at all.

I've had my Sony 505 for almost exactly a day now and did import the PDF directly, but the print is TINY. I've got pretty young eyes and can barely read it. Am I missing something?

ETA: Oops, I was looking at the Suze Orman PDF, which IS tiny. I haven't loaded Mistborn yet.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by carandol

Well, that was a journey of discovery. Along the way, I found out that Tor has an Acquisitions Editor for Paranormal Romance. You live and learn.

I know her. Paranormal Romances are rapidly becoming a full fledged genre all their own. If I recall correctly, she's also looking for more books like Jaqueline Carey's "Kushiel" series, which I can only call BDSM fantasy. Porn isn't dead, it's just called romance these days...

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be an email address for Dissatisfied Customers. There are some contact addresses here: http://www.tor-forge.com/ContactUs.aspx

I guess the nearest thing would be to write to the Webmaster, since it's a sort of technical problem, though whether it would get to the person making the decisions about file formats is anybody's guess.

It wouldn't, unless the Webmaster forwarded it. The Webmaster maintains the site. The format ebooks are offered in is another matter.

At least the Webmaster would likely know what you were on about!

I dropped a note to a contact at Tor, who will forward it to the folks involved in the effort. I'll report back if/when I hear anything.
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Dennis

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by curtw

What version of Acrobat are you using? I've got Acrobat 8, and tried it with Export to HTML 3. The only "flaw" was that it dropped the icons from the "Allomancy quick reference chart" at the end (probably because of them being in-line graphics). It chose a really weird 13.5-point font size that made the non-italics look like they were bolded, but that was a simple global change. it fully retained the single-character ligature for "fl," and I havent double-checkrd to see if it still displays properly on my reader, but looks good in MS Word.

Export to RTF, on the other hand, looks like garbage...

I did use Acrobat 8 to export this PDF to HTML 4.1 with CSS and it didn't come out as good as I would have liked. I've been searhing/replacing to find where the fi got lost. Seems it's screwed up in the original HTML. I can fix it there, but I would lose all the formatting I've done. Also there are spots where the paragraphs are just awful. Overall, I think TOR dropped the ball with this one. What TOR should have done if they had wanted it to be PDF is make it for a 6" eink screen and then we would have been OK. But as it is, it's a nightmare to convert it. Mobipocket Creator did even worse then Acrobat.

[JSWolf]

I did just reply to the email address used to send up the link to the eBook.

I hope TOR takes this seriously.

I want to first off say thank you for the free eBook of Mistborn.

I am a moderator over at the MobilRead forums https://www.mobileread.com and a lot of the people there have eink based readers. Some have ilIads, but most have a combination of Jinke V3, Sony Readers, Amazon Kindles, and Cybook Gen3s. With the exception of the iliad these all have 6" eink screens. The problem with PDF as a format is that unless it's made to fit the size of the 6" eink screen, it won't display well and the reading experience won't be so nice. Some of the users (myself included) have been attempting to convert this eBook into a format we can use and it's not going well. Even Acrobat 8 Pro has a problem exporting it without errors.

What we would like is for your eBooks to be in a format that we can either use as is or a format that is easily able to be converted. HTML would make it very easy to convert to something our portable reading devices can handle. RTF is also good. But because these different devices use different formats, a universal format such as HTML or RTF would be very good. Please have a think on this issue and if you do decide to change your choice of formats to something the uses would enjoy more then please rerelease Mistborn in such a format as well as any of the future free eBooks you are giving away.

A lot of people aere not happy with the PDF you've supplied even though it is free. Not being able to get it easily setup for a good enjoyable experience on their portable reading devices is severely hampering their enjoyment. So please, give this some very serious though. What is said over at MobileRead does sometimes get picked up my the big blogs such as Engadget and others. And if the mood there is that of dissatisfaction, then that might get picked up by the some of the other blogs and posted. Please do what's right by the readers. You make then happy and they will purchase eBooks from you if you do then right.

Sincerely,
Jon Wolf
Moderator at MobileRead Forums
https://www.mobileread.com

That is what I wrote to them just now.

[Cthulhu]

Jon:

If that isn't bounced back, I'd like copy some of the bits and send it along myself.

[carandol]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I know her. Paranormal Romances are rapidly becoming a full fledged genre all their own. If I recall correctly, she's also looking for more books like Jaqueline Carey's "Kushiel" series, which I can only call BDSM fantasy. Porn isn't dead, it's just called romance these days...

One of the weirdest new genres I've seen recently was in our local branch of WHSmiths, who now have an entire section (in between Biography and Cookery), of Tragic Life Stories.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

I dropped a note to a contact at Tor, who will forward it to the folks involved in the effort. I'll report back if/when I hear anything.

Fingers crossed...

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by carandol

One of the weirdest new genres I've seen recently was in our local branch of WHSmiths, who now have an entire section (in between Biography and Cookery), of Tragic Life Stories.

There is something truly antic about just where WHSmith shelved that new genre.

But it's been argued for years now that there is no longer such as thing as "mainstream fiction" -- only an increasing number of popular genres -- and I think that may be the case.

Simply in SF/Fantasy, I've watched Alternate History become almost a full-fledged genre of its own, with a good argument to be made that some of it isn't really SF, as it has none of the tropes: simply an underlying assumption that things happened differently than the history we know.

Paranormal romance is a new one, and Harlequin's Luna Books imprint is devoted to fantasy/romance crossovers, where the romance is a secondary element.

And the vampire novel and spinoffs are arguably a separate genre as well, with Laurel K. Hamilton leading that pack. (A friend who is a writer and former editor divides the stages in Hamilton's career by her personal life: she divorced "slow and steady" husband, and married a younger guy who is seriously into kink, and the books produced since then have born a lot stronger resemblance to straight-up porn than romance...)

One thing I get from it is an interesting comment on who the readers are. Lots of folks are still reading, but the audience seems to be skewing more toward women. Most of the above stuff save alternate history is aimed squarely at a female readership.
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Dennis