Congrats to Calibre

[toddos]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

Every thread makes me feel good. What doesn't make me feel good is the idea of picking and choosing which forms of copyright to abide by.

Yes google has convinced the courts that caching of webpages for search purposes does not infringe on copyright but I am not sure that caching of rss feeds for sending to an ereader does not. By the court's logic then Calibre is a tool for enabling the piracy of web content, by mobileread's logic links to the program should be deleted.

RSS feeds can contain as much or as little content as a publisher wants. If they don't want to "give away" their content, their RSS feed can consist of nothing more than a link to the web page, and calibre won't follow the link to pull down the actual content.

If someone doesn't want their content read by RSS readers (and there are plenty of caching RSS readers besides calibre), then they shouldn't put their content in an RSS feeds. Stop blaming the users for dumb publishers.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by toddos

RSS feeds can contain as much or as little content as a publisher wants. If they don't want to "give away" their content, their RSS feed can consist of nothing more than a link to the web page, and calibre won't follow the link to pull down the actual content.

If someone doesn't want their content read by RSS readers (and there are plenty of caching RSS readers besides calibre), then they shouldn't put their content in an RSS feeds. Stop blaming the users for dumb publishers.

I guess I simplified it a bit, Calibre allows for the download and reading of virtually any website, via reading devices that were not intended to be used by the site's creator. Specifically via reading devices that do not display the advertisements contained on the original content's site. This causes economic harm to those site's due to bandwidth usage without revenue gain from advertising. To me it's all academic since I use adblocking software, ads just aren't relevant enough IMO, perhaps that will change though.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I like Calibre too.

[sourcejedi]

To be clear: I'm not a Calibre user. I use folders and filenames to organise an unusually large number of files in a more portable way. It's an impressive project, and I can imagine suggesting it to others as a solution for a range of needs.

Calibre is free to declare that strict respect for copyright in letter and spirit is an unimplemented feature. And potential users are free to raise feature requests that'd make them happier .

Originally Posted by toddos

RSS feeds can contain as much or as little content as a publisher wants. If they don't want to "give away" their content, their RSS feed can consist of nothing more than a link to the web page, and calibre won't follow the link to pull down the actual content.

Reading the Calibre manual on recipes, the BBC example shows it following the link in the RSS, and then downloading the "printable" version of the article. Checking the API docs, it does that dereferencing automatically for all RSS articles under a certain length.

Personally I'd assert Calibre's right to do this even without the RSS, if the issue was noted in documentation (including explanations in recipes where the website explicitly grants permission), and it avoided deliberate mangling or selection without permission. (And the maintainers respected opt-out requests). In my model, going through to the printable version without further comment fails that test. (The BBC is a public organisation, but their content is not in the public domain. What should work very nicely is using the mobile site, even using UA spoofing if necessary; after all, Calibre is acting on behalf of a mobile device.)

To complete the derail: I have recipes of my own to archive webcomics. General-purpose tools let me view the archive in a browser. My principles tell me I should start feeling slightly guilty after doing so (targeted archiving of a commercial site without checking for particular permissions), and slightly more guilty if I use an image-viewer to skip HTML framing (assuming no ads either way -- see "spoiler"). Distributing specific instructions for a large number of image-gallery style archives to a wider audience, who've probably been reading with ads, while soliciting donations for myself, would be well above my current threshold for cognitive dissonance. I've looked at various comic viewers for Linux, but I generally prefer the way things look in my browser. So I have to admit this isn't a very strong temptation I'm resisting, aside from the appeal of writing my own 'superior' programs.

Spoiler:

To some extent this is me showing geek privilege and hair-splitting. I disable AdBlock on Ars Technica, MobileRead and other visit-worthy sites, in line with their wishes. But most of the ad networks rely on Javascript -- and I don't have a reason to whitelist the third-party javascript, especially not on straightforward news sites that work fine for me without even enabling their JS. Tit for tat: I'll feel guilty about their business model when they (tech sites!) feel guilty about browser security.

Calibre and e-ink readers are in a similar position w.r.t. JS: they don't implement it, because it'd take extra effort for what looks like an immediate decrease in overall user-friendliness.

On a different front: I think more people would see an issue if the outputs of the recipes was visible on the Web, on a donation-supported site. I'm not sure that changing the scenario from a website to a desktop application makes much of a difference.

[pendragginp]

Calibre is an awesome program, congrats!

[EowynCarter]

To be clear: I'm not a Calibre user. I use folders and filenames to organise an unusually large number of files in a more portable way.

Ah ah !

More seriously, i don't see what's the problem with copyright and calibre recipes. You won't be able to import content into calibre you're not having access to. It's not giving you access to content you should be paying for. Ads ? Well, then ad-block and others firefox plugin should be banned too.

[Giggleton]

Originally Posted by sourcejedi

On a different front: I think more people would see an issue if the outputs of the recipes was visible on the Web, on a donation-supported site. I'm not sure that changing the scenario from a website to a desktop application makes much of a difference.

I'm assuming you use instapaper? It's basically the same thing, click a button and have the textual content of a website delivered to your ereader sans ads and the site does ask for donations. It's a hack in other words around the ads.

Originally Posted by EowynCarter

More seriously, i don't see what's the problem with copyright and calibre recipes. You won't be able to import content into calibre you're not having access to. It's not giving you access to content you should be paying for. Ads ? Well, then ad-block and others firefox plugin should be banned too.

I am sure there are many who would agree with you, the question is should we subscribe to the notion and implement the idea? When adblocking software is outlawed only outlaws will use adblocking software i.e. Calibre

[elcreative]

Please make your mind up... either you want everything free and open or you don't... as you don't use calibre then why are you so anti this invaluable file conversion and database tool... if any site objects to people using RSS feeds then they don't have to use them... all calibre does is automate the ability to download multiple feeds that different sites PROVIDE themselves... no difference to selecting multiple feeds with a browser or a dedicated RSS tool... all LEGAL and accepted tools and methods of handling RSS.

And you don't have to hack anything to download website content... browsers can save as archive/source, computers can print or print to pdf... no special tools, no hacks just normal usage... and calibre is not adblocking software!!!

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I'm assuming you use instapaper? It's basically the same thing, click a button and have the textual content of a website delivered to your ereader sans ads and the site does ask for donations. It's a hack in other words around the ads.



I am sure there are many who would agree with you, the question is should we subscribe to the notion and implement the idea? When adblocking software is outlawed only outlaws will use adblocking software i.e. Calibre

[caleb72]

Hmmm - I haven't really used any of the recipes myself. I mainly use Calibre as library management and it's an exquisite piece of software for that purpose.

Congratulations.

Regards
Caleb

[KevinH]

Hi,

There are numerous add-ons for Firefox, Safari to block ads, plus you can even use web browser stylesheets to remove most ads without the need for an add-on. There are even published ad databases to help these tools determine which links off the site are ads and which are not (do you block pop-up windows anyone!)

So I never see an ad while surfing the web unless I actually want to. No one has ruled that any of these "ad" blockers is breaking copyright. There is no copyright law that requires the user to see an ad before or after reading the article they have publicly posted either when read off-line or on-line. So please stop making claims that any of this is a violation of copyright. It simply is not.

[GeoffC]

to Calibre

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I guess I simplified it a bit, Calibre allows for the download and reading of virtually any website, via reading devices that were not intended to be used by the site's creator. Specifically via reading devices that do not display the advertisements contained on the original content's site. This causes economic harm to those site's due to bandwidth usage without revenue gain from advertising. To me it's all academic since I use adblocking software, ads just aren't relevant enough IMO, perhaps that will change though.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I like Calibre too.

OMG, you give me a headache! Just stop already!!! Say "GREAT JOB, CALIBRE" and move on or don't say anything at all. This is not the thread for your rainbows, butterflies, and conspiracy theories.

[GeoffC]

Children, children - play nicely please ....

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by GeoffC

Children, children - play nicely please ....

Sorry...

[Belfaborac]

Here's hoping that Calibre gets more coverage and Kovid more well deserved recognition for his excellent program!

[EowynCarter]

Oh, yeah, right, all hails the almighty calibre.

While I disagree with Giggleton on that issue, i can't say I'm a fan a calibre. I was glad to find it when i needed to convert all these mobi to ePub. But for the rest, I found I was better off without calibre. (I need to deal with multiple versions of a book, and that something calibre isn't meant to do.)