Irate kindlers 1star carpet bomb Michael Connelly's new book

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by Catlady

It doesn't seem to get through to some of you that the issue isn't the e-book price per se, it's the e-book price in comparison to the paper prices.

Most of you seem to be against Agency pricing. The one-star reviews are, in essence, a protest against Agency pricing. That's a good thing.

I wouldn't agree with that, per se. While it may be a protest against Agency pricing the carpet bombing has made Amazon's reviews more useless than they were to begin with. I don't use Amazon's reviews very much anymore...they are mostly worthless. I go to sites like Goodreads first now. I used to always go to Amazon because I'm a "read the bad reviews first" find of girl..but there is no way I'm wading through that "I didn't read it/buy it/own it but" crap. Its not worth it for me. I just go to Amazon to price compare and purchase...I don't look at reviews.

So, in a way, the carpet bombs have done the opposite of the intention for me.

But go right ahead, 1 star all you like. If you like it, I love it.

[RockdaMan]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

If you're on the reviews page, you've already decided that the price isn't too high for you. Otherwise, you never get that far.

bzzzt bzzzt.

Try again...

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

bzzzt bzzzt.

Try again...

What's wrong? Was the font not large enough? I didn't really feel the need to shout the obvious.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by MrsJoseph

I wouldn't agree with that, per se. While it may be a protest against Agency pricing the carpet bombing has made Amazon's reviews more useless than they were to begin with. I don't use Amazon's reviews very much anymore...they are mostly worthless. I go to sites like Goodreads first now. I used to always go to Amazon because I'm a "read the bad reviews first" find of girl..but there is no way I'm wading through that "I didn't read it/buy it/own it but" crap. Its not worth it for me. I just go to Amazon to price compare and purchase...I don't look at reviews.

So, in a way, the carpet bombs have done the opposite of the intention for me.

But go right ahead, 1 star all you like. If you like it, I love it.

If the authors/publishers want the reviews to go back to being reviews, then get the agency 6 to piss off and put prices back to some sense of normality and let us get on with reviewing.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If the authors/publishers want the reviews to go back to being reviews, then get the agency 6 to piss off and put prices back to some sense of normality and let us get on with reviewing.

That smells tantalizingly like an admission that the system is NOT currently being used as it was intended.

I'll take that tiny victory.

[Hellmark]

I often will use reviews to help me make up my mind on something. I have a basic overall price range I stick to, and the quality of the work effects how high in that range I will go to. If something is very high in quality, likely to get me sucked in, I'll be willing to pay more than if it is something I just merely may like. So if I am at the review page, I've not decided if the price is too high or not.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If the authors/publishers want the reviews to go back to being reviews, then get the agency 6 to piss off and put prices back to some sense of normality and let us get on with reviewing.

Oh please. You do what you want - but don't think that the 1 star reviews are hurting authors/publishers. Instead what it does is have READERS looking for REVIEWS going elsewhere (thus ignoring your carpet bombing temper tantrums)...and then still coming back to Amazon for purchase. In other words - it doesn't do you a bit of good...except to get some ranting done.

As I said before: if you like it, I love it. But don't think that you've actually accomplished anything. That's a whole different kettle of fish.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

If the authors/publishers want the reviews to go back to being reviews, then get the agency 6 to piss off and put prices back to some sense of normality and let us get on with reviewing.

How much pull do you think the average author has? Not much. And frankly, there's nothing in it for them to ask the publisher to lower the price, anyway. Once you've posted a one-star review, in all likelihood, the damage is already done. (Yes, you can change or delete the review, but how many on the One Star Price Check Brigade are going to do that?)

The thing that I find most disturbing about the sentiment expressed above is that there's a hostage-taking mentality involved: "Give in to our demands or else."

Is there any reason in particular you'd expect anyone to respond positively to that?

To put this in a little bit of perspective: At a B&M store, the rational thing to do when you see something you think is priced to high is to not buy it. You don't see women outside Macy's picketing when they think the price of handbags is too high. You don't see people lined up outside supermarkets picketing because of the price of bottled water (which is a much bigger swindle, in terms of what you get for your money, than e-books are).

You can't really start dropping these turds into the review pool and expect people to humor you and pretend your behavior is rational.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

I often will use reviews to help me make up my mind on something. I have a basic overall price range I stick to, and the quality of the work effects how high in that range I will go to. If something is very high in quality, likely to get me sucked in, I'll be willing to pay more than if it is something I just merely may like. So if I am at the review page, I've not decided if the price is too high or not.

In that case, I'd assume that the reviews are especially important to you. I usually go the reverse way: I decide if the price is what I want to spend for an e-book (keeping in mind what kind of e-book it is, as many times reference is priced higher than fiction) and then I look to reviews to tell me if this book is a reasonable use of that money.

Either way, I don't think the one-star reviews (based solely on price) factor very highly into the equation.

[pricecw]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

1) You don't know what Amazon thinks of the one-star ratings based on price alone. All you know is that Amazon hasn't removed them. That's not necessarily agreement with the review or the tactic. It might just be a reluctance to delete reviews in general.

They haven't shown that reluctance ever before, and they are allowing this, even though it has been brought to their attention, thus we can conclude that they support this use of the system.

Further, you want it to be a book review, which the system is not, it is a product review. Very different things.

--Carl

[pricecw]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

How much pull do you think the average author has? Not much. And frankly, there's nothing in it for them to ask the publisher to lower the price, anyway. Once you've posted a one-star review, in all likelihood, the damage is already done. (Yes, you can change or delete the review, but how many on the One Star Price Check Brigade are going to do that?)

The thing that I find most disturbing about the sentiment expressed above is that there's a hostage-taking mentality involved: "Give in to our demands or else."

Is there any reason in particular you'd expect anyone to respond positively to that?

To put this in a little bit of perspective: At a B&M store, the rational thing to do when you see something you think is priced to high is to not buy it. You don't see women outside Macy's picketing when they think the price of handbags is too high. You don't see people lined up outside supermarkets picketing because of the price of bottled water (which is a much bigger swindle, in terms of what you get for your money, than e-books are).

You can't really start dropping these turds into the review pool and expect people to humor you and pretend your behavior is rational.

The average author has 100% of the rights, and can only give them up.

Maybe that author will do nothing, but maybe the next author will see what happened and respond so it doesn't happen to them. Maybe they will realize that giving rights to organizations that will piss off customers is a bad move. Maybe not, but it is fair for customers to let everyone know why they are angry.

--Carl

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by pricecw

The average author has 100% of the rights, and can only give them up.

Which the author invariably does when dealing with a publisher. Getting published through a publisher always involves relinquishing some rights. The only question that's ever at issue is how many rights you give up. And because publishers are in the business to make money, pricing is something that authors invariably have to give publishers rights to, in order to get published.

Even if authors could have control over their e-books' prices, it's not at all clear to me why they would lower the price in response to 1-star reviews. You're basically demanding they make less money in return for not causing them trouble. So they can either make less money and listen to the protests, or keep the price where it is and make less money because of the protests. Seeing as how it's much easier to keep the price where it is, since they don't actually have to do anything, I can't see a situation where the reviews would have the desired effect.

Originally Posted by pricecw

Maybe that author will do nothing, but maybe the next author will see what happened and respond so it doesn't happen to them. Maybe they will realize that giving rights to organizations that will piss off customers is a bad move. Maybe not, but it is fair for customers to let everyone know why they are angry.

--Carl

It's absolutely fair for customers to let everyone know why they're not happy. I would never suggest otherwise. But there are other places on the Amazon site, and even on the product page, where people can vent their opinions on issues like that without being dishonest and intentionally corrupting the system.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

It's absolutely fair for customers to let everyone know why they're not happy. I would never suggest otherwise. But there are other places on the Amazon site, and even on the product page, where people can vent their opinions on issues like that without being dishonest and intentionally corrupting the system.

Please don't throw around words like dishonest and intentionally corrupting.

What would be dishonest is giving a one-star rating and saying a book is horribly written when the reviewer's real problem is price. When the reviewer clearly states that his or her rating is based on price, that is completely honest.

You don't think price is a valid standard to consider; others do. That doesn't make them dishonest or corrupt.

[pricecw]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Which the author invariably does when dealing with a publisher. Getting published through a publisher always involves relinquishing some rights. The only question that's ever at issue is how many rights you give up. And because publishers are in the business to make money, pricing is something that authors invariably have to give publishers rights to, in order to get published.

Even if authors could have control over their e-books' prices, it's not at all clear to me why they would lower the price in response to 1-star reviews. You're basically demanding they make less money in return for not causing them trouble. So they can either make less money and listen to the protests, or keep the price where it is and make less money because of the protests. Seeing as how it's much easier to keep the price where it is, since they don't actually have to do anything, I can't see a situation where the reviews would have the desired effect.





It's absolutely fair for customers to let everyone know why they're not happy. I would never suggest otherwise. But there are other places on the Amazon site, and even on the product page, where people can vent their opinions on issues like that without being dishonest and intentionally corrupting the system.

Or, they can keep customers happy and excited to read and use word of mouth to spread the book. Treating readers as stupid, thieves, etc, is a poor way to do this. Most are not against a fair price for entertainment, but if as an author you try to take advantage of your readers, you can expect pushback, and generally publicly. This serves as a warning to others. And, as for what positive they have in the system, say you are a new kindle owner, really wanting to try it out, maybe you haven't looked at the price of the Hardcover, and the reviews will get you to buy something else to try on your new shiny toy. Maybe you read the book in another form, maybe not, but that is one good that can come from these type of protests.

Both authors and author guilds should be pressuring the publishers to ensure this doesn't happen, but if they don't, I personally can't lay the blame on the publisher alone, since all power is ultimately derived from the author, the author bears the responsibility, even if they may have given that up.

There are other places to vent the frustration, but why should they neglect the one that will have an impact and make the author and publisher see the point? I haven't ever done this, but will not tell others not to. As long as Amazon feels this is the way to run their system, then it is fine, otherwise, Amazon can easily take care of the issue.

--Carl

[tompe]

Originally Posted by Catlady

It doesn't seem to get through to some of you that the issue isn't the e-book price per se, it's the e-book price in comparison to the paper prices

And the point you seem to be missing is that here is nothing obvious with that the e-book price should have a specific relation to the paper book price. An e-book is more useful since it is searchable and you can annotate and share annotations. Why does that not motivate that the e-book is more valuable and therefore have a higher price than the paper book?