Irate kindlers 1star carpet bomb Michael Connelly's new book

[pricecw]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

No, I don't blame the Agency 6, or Apple. They're responsible for the e-book pricing, obviously, but they're not responsible for people abusing the system. That shifts the blame unjustifiably. People need to open their eyes and realize what the review and rating system is for: It's for people who've already come to terms with the book's price to get a review of the book's content. The only people who care about the book's price is the people writing the fake reviews, not the people reading them.

As I said before, it's like kids peeing in the pool: It's not illegal, but it certainly isn't helping.

Actually, that is what you want the system to be. According to Amazon, who set up and runs the system, it is being used as intended by people who post likes and dislikes about any aspect of the product being sold. This can range from content to perceived value, to issues with packaging.

I agree, people need to realize what the review and rating system is for, Amazon is the one that gets to define that, so people need to stop complaining when others use it as intended and they wish it was different.

--Carl

[gmw]

I find a lot of this to be truly incomprehensible. You don't like the current price BUT you know if you wait a while the price will come down. ... So what's the big deal here people? Simply wait.

A little bit of perspective is in order. This isn't some life threatening medical condition you have, its a desire to read a book. Okay, so the desire doesn't stretch the wallet open quite that far. So what? So wait. Unlike many medical treatments, this price is almost guaranteed to come down. ... Some of you sound like kids grumbling in the car: "Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?"

So many here want the publishers and sellers to understand how ereaders and the Internet have changed the face of publishing. Well, guess what people? Ereaders and the Internet have changed the face of publishing! Including the ability to push ebooks out on a constantly sliding scale until they flush out buyers prepared to meet that price. If enough people abstain from purchase they will get the message and reduce, but while enough people buy at the higher price the rest just have to get used to waiting for the market to wash out. Actually it is not really much different to what happens in the pbook market, and for the same reasons (ie. NOT production cost), it is just that ebook markets are so much easier to play in that they can squeeze a bit tighter. While ever it works you can expect they will keep doing it.

Market forces etc etc as repeated on various threads. Surely this isn't too difficult to understand.

(Sorry, bad night.)

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by pricecw

Actually, that is what you want the system to be. According to Amazon, who set up and runs the system, it is being used as intended by people who post likes and dislikes about any aspect of the product being sold. This can range from content to perceived value, to issues with packaging.

1) You don't know what Amazon thinks of the one-star ratings based on price alone. All you know is that Amazon hasn't removed them. That's not necessarily agreement with the review or the tactic. It might just be a reluctance to delete reviews in general.

2) You can't judge value without judging content. It's not valid to say simply, "Well, the e-book should always be less than the paper book." Why? Because, quite obviously, a lot of people are deciding that the e-book has more value for them, which is why they're choosing it over the paper version.

Try this experiment: Do a search for a book on Amazon. When it comes up, look at what version is listed. I've done this five times in a row for different books. What I've found every time is that either the hardcover or paperback version comes up first. You only get the Kindle version to come up first if you search in the Kindle store. And even when you do that, you'll find the prices of the other versions. So yes, you always get the prices of all the versions, and the choice to pick your poison. And the people doing that pick their version knowing what it costs. So a simple, "If it's paper, it's worth more than electronic" isn't valid for them.

Originally Posted by pricecw

I agree, people need to realize what the review and rating system is for, Amazon is the one that gets to define that, so people need to stop complaining when others use it as intended and they wish it was different.

--Carl

Again, Amazon allowing those reviews to stay up isn't an endorsement of the method. In fact, one of the terms of the use of Amazon's review system lists under "inappropriate content":

Details about availability or alternate ordering/shipping

It also lists "spiteful remarks" as "objectionable material".

Now, I'm not arguing that Amazon doesn't want the reviews up. As others have said, it certainly benefits Amazon when people complain about the price of e-books. But it's disingenuous to act as if these mock-reviews are using the system exactly as Amazon intended all along.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Because, quite obviously, a lot of people are deciding that the e-book has more value for them, which is why they're choosing it over the paper version.

Those people were hapless victims. Obviously they don't know what's good for them. But really, they had no choice. Have you seen what happens to a young child after a week deprived of the three dollar less expensive adventures of a hard boiled lawyer who plays by his own rules? It ain't pretty. Think of the children.

You know who else forced overpriced ebooks onto a captive audience?

$24.99!!

[CWatkinsNash]

Can I invoke Godwin's Law? Pretty please??? I never get there first, it would mean a lot to me.

[OtterBooks]

I was hoping.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by gmw

I find a lot of this to be truly incomprehensible. You don't like the current price BUT you know if you wait a while the price will come down. ... So what's the big deal here people? Simply wait.

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is 50 years old.

Trade paper price: $13.75
Mass market paperback price: $9.99
Kindle price: $18.99

So just how long do I need to wait for the e-book price to come down?

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is 50 years old.

Trade paper price: $13.75
Mass market paperback price: $9.99
Kindle price: $18.99

So just how long do I need to wait for the e-book price to come down?

Only until they run out of people willing to pay the $18.99. How long has the book been selling as Kindle (obviously not 50 years)? If that turns out to be a long time you may like to read that as a message from the market: that's what lots of people think the e-book is worth. If you disagree ... well, they still offer you the cheaper, if less convenient to you, alternatives. Whether you happen like it or not, it's all quite democratic: one dollar one vote.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is 50 years old.

Trade paper price: $13.75
Mass market paperback price: $9.99
Kindle price: $18.99

So just how long do I need to wait for the e-book price to come down?

Considering it's Ayn Rand, she would probably suggest that if you can't afford it, you don't deserve to read it anyway.

[HansTWN]

Originally Posted by gmw

Only until they run out of people willing to pay the $18.99. How long has the book been selling as Kindle (obviously not 50 years)? If that turns out to be a long time you may like to read that as a message from the market: that's what lots of people think the e-book is worth. If you disagree ... well, they still offer you the cheaper, if less convenient to you, alternatives. Whether you happen like it or not, it's all quite democratic: one dollar one vote.

Fair enough --- but as in any democracy we prefer to speak up. And that includes the 1 Star review (even if I personally never did that). Just like you can ignore a demonstration you can ignore the reviews. Telling people not to give 1 star reviews based on pricing is like telling voters in an election "just shut up and vote for his opponent, don't complain that he is corrupt because a lot of people still like him". The 1 star reviews are just a rather effective way of consumer activism.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by HansTWN

Fair enough --- but as in any democracy we prefer to speak up. And that includes the 1 Star review (even if I personally never did that). Just like you can ignore a demonstration you can ignore the reviews. Telling people not to give 1 star reviews based on pricing is like telling voters in an election "just shut up and vote for his opponent, don't complain that he is corrupt because a lot of people still like him". The 1 star reviews are just a rather effective way of consumer activism.

I agree. People are within their rights to abuse any open online system in any way that doesn't cause the owner to remove what they've done. If people want to protest within such constraints then that's their choice. Yes, personally, I do find it annoying, pointless, senseless and generally rather silly, but fine, if that's what they want (a bit like all these "x against DRM" protests really). If it makes them feel better: go ahead. As you say, that is democracy in action too.

It may even have some slight impact. A seller may adjust the point at which falling profits at price x will have them change to a lower price, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Since the reviews are mostly there for other readers, the seller may well find it has little affect on their sales, or indeed the sheer volume of one-star reviews may come to be used by people as: "hey, there are lots of people wanting to buy this book when it gets cheaper, it must be good" and so even the one-star reviews may result in increased sales (and perhaps that's why Amazon is happy to leave such protest reviews in place).

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

Considering it's Ayn Rand, she would probably suggest that if you can't afford it, you don't deserve to read it anyway.

On a more serious note, it's pretty obvious why the price is so high right now:

1) It hasn't been a (non-pirated) e-book very long.
2) There's a movie coming out, so it's possible they're trying to capitalize on that.

Like it or not, Atlas Shrugged has a certain iconic status (especially with the Tea Party crowd, who, I'm guessing from the way they refer to Rand, probably haven't either read it or understood it). Personally, I found The Fountainhead to be the better book.

But here's the thing: If the Kindle version is too expensive for your tastes, and you think the paper version is a better value, wouldn't it make sense to buy the paper version? Why are people complaining that it's cheaper for them to buy a version of a book that they value more?

See, I don't think people are really complaining because they're upset about being charged more for a version they value less. I think they want to pay less for a version they value more. Otherwise, why complain that a version you prefer costs less than one you don't prefer? That's why I think this whole argument that the e-book format should cost less is suspect. People are flocking to e-books right now. The value is obviously there for them. You can't expect companies to charge less for a version that people do want than a version that people don't want.

[MrsJoseph]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And I guarantee you; 200 5-star reviews praising an author's in-depth "World-Building" skills is a dead giveaway that I will want to avoid that particular exercise in filler and info-dumps. Reviews usually help me NOT purchase something... not the other way around. The same way that I can translate 100; "I can't wait for book two!"'s into "book one has no proper ending... wait until the series is complete."

THIS!

[Barty]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Ayn Rand's Atlas Shrugged is 50 years old.

Trade paper price: $13.75
Mass market paperback price: $9.99
Kindle price: $18.99

So just how long do I need to wait for the e-book price to come down?

Only losers worry about $5. Ayn Rand ain't for losers.

[Catlady]

It doesn't seem to get through to some of you that the issue isn't the e-book price per se, it's the e-book price in comparison to the paper prices.

Most of you seem to be against Agency pricing. The one-star reviews are, in essence, a protest against Agency pricing. That's a good thing.