Irate kindlers 1star carpet bomb Michael Connelly's new book

[anamardoll]

Again, all you need to do is READ the review. Problem solved. What it all comes down to is that you don't want to actually read the comments.

I feel like this argument is disingenuous. A given book on Amazon has hundreds of reviews - this meme that people who don't want to wade through Kindle bombs are *just lazy* needs to stop. It's perfectly appropriate to complain about "noise" in the reviewing system - not everyone has the time to look for the one useful 1-star review in a haystack of "have you noticed there's no $9.99 Kindle version yet?!".

Here is an example of a Kindle bomb book:
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Change-Cl...pr_product_top

There are 700 customer reviews on this book, over 200 of which are 1-star reviews. That's over 20 *pages* of 1-star reviews alone; it's 70 pages of review total. The book itself is 480 pages - by the time you finish reading the Amazon reviews, you could have gotten 15% through the actual book!

Of the 21 pages of 1-star reviews, pages 5-21 are almost entirely Kindle bombs. Here's just the last page of 1-star reviews:
http://www.amazon.com/Game-Change-Cl...&pageNumber=21

My "favorite" review quoted (in part) here:

I really wish this book were available on Kindle. I would have bought it 60 seconds ago and be reading it right now.

I've read several reviews and an excerpt from this book on other Web sites -- it sounds really good. I am anxious to read it ASAP.

But frankly, I have no desire to go out in the cold and use the small amount of expensive gas in my car to drive to my local book store, which is almost 20 miles away.

The entire rest of the page is all of that and more.

Of course, there IS a Kindle version of this book - $9.99, even! - but it didn't come out on the exact same day as the hardcover, so here we are. Since I actually followed this particular Kindle bomb in "real time", I can almost swear as a fact that none of the Kindle bombs were cleaned up after the $9.99 Kindle version came available - far from it! The mentality on the boards is that the Kindle bombs need to stay up to "show HarperCollins a lesson". Meanwhile, people who want to see a combined star rating that actual reflects the value of the book are S.O.L.

The point that I think the "No Kindle Bomb" crowd wants to make is that reviews are not for protesting. I hate to invoke the "slippery slope" argument, but how can reviews ever be meaningful and helpful if they are buried under waves of protest comments by people who haven't used or even SEEN the product firsthand?

If everyone gives all Kindle books 1-star for not being cheaper than the paperback, or available on the same day as the hardcover, or for not being free, or whatever, then the 1-star rating becomes meaningless. If everyone gives Kindle books 5-stars for being free, then again, the system is useless as a product comparison tool. I'm currently boycotting HarperCollins right now because of their ridiculous forced obsolescence library meddling, but I wouldn't consider it an appropriate use of the review system to start crafting reviews for books I've never even seen just because I'm P.O.'d at HarperCollins.

I feel for people who want a public forum to express their grievances. That's part of why Amazon has customer forums set up for EVERY product on their site. And that's part of why those forums are listed on the product page, just under the spotlighted reviews, so that customers can see what people are saying about the book OUTSIDE the reviews.

(For example, the forum for the book discussed above is here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/forum/cd/fo...sin=0061733644)

People can and do use star ratings when browsing books. Those ratings shouldn't be rendered meaningless just because a book isn't on the Kindle. And frankly, the fact that those review still exist at this point makes me think that the issue was less about getting a Kindle version (that I'm SURE they all rushed out and bought like they claimed they wanted to) and more about feeling the rush of putting poo on someone's porch.

That's my opinion, though. I'm very passionate about reviewing.

[jersysman]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

People can and do use star ratings when browsing books. Those ratings shouldn't be rendered meaningless just because a book isn't on the Kindle. And frankly, the fact that those review still exist at this point makes me think that the issue was less about getting a Kindle version (that I'm SURE they all rushed out and bought like they claimed they wanted to) and more about feeling the rush of putting poo on someone's porch.

That's my opinion, though. I'm very passionate about reviewing.

This lays it out for me. There is no way that I am going to wade through pages of so-called reviews just to get to the one genuine review. Heck, because of this, i am skeptical about every 1-star or 5-star review that I will come across. It shouldn't be this way. Potential buyers should be able to read constructive reviews of a product before spending their money on that product. We all have a price point as to whether or not we will make a purchase, but that decision should be up to the consumer and no one else.

IMO reviews of books should be a review of the content.

[BenG]

There is a graph at the top of the page that breaks the reviews down into 5, 4, 3, 2 & 1 stars. If you want to read just the four-star reviews click on the four-star graph.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by jersysman

IMO reviews of books should be a review of the content.

Well, I don't 100% agree with that. There are certain kinds of books that can be overpriced, but the key is that the content is overpriced, or that the book is misrepresented in some way. For example, I bought a Kindle book recently that was titled something like, "How to Win at Poker". The book was $1, so I took a shot on it. It turned out to just be a book on the various rules of poker. There were no strategy discussions at all. I didn't bother reviewing the book, because I do think a rule guide to poker might be worth $1, but if the same book is priced $9.99, that, IMO, would deserve a one-star rating based on price.

[anamardoll]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Well, I don't 100% agree with that. There are certain kinds of books that can be overpriced, but the key is that the content is overpriced...

I agree. I think the difference is value versus price.

Value is subjective. I might think that "Jane Eyre" at $10 a pop is ridiculous since you can get it for free on Project Gutenberg; someone else might point to the incredibly pretty cover, extremely informative introductory essay, and the copious footnotes throughout the material as well worth the ten bucks.

Price is not subjective. This copy of "Jane Eyre" is $10 - that's obvious to the customer immediately upon visiting the product page. Any review pointing out that - hey, this book here? It's ten bucks. - is automatically unhelpful, because I can already see that it's $10.

Of course, I *do* think that in this example it's valuable to note that there are free versions elsewhere, but since that is against the Amazon TOS, you have to be a little clever about it. "What sets this edition apart from the free public-domain copies is the incredible opening essay by I.M. Soopersmart, Ph.D...."

In your case, though, your review on the poker book is DEFINITELY a content review: the title led you to expect different content than what you were provided. Your review would therefore explain what the ACTUAL content is, and would in fact be incredibly helpful to people considering that purchase.

.......at least until your review got buried in 400 five-star reviews happy about the price and 600 one-star reviews complaining about the price.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by anamardoll

In your case, though, your review on the poker book is DEFINITELY a content review: the title led you to expect different content than what you were provided. Your review would therefore explain what the ACTUAL content is, and would in fact be incredibly helpful to people considering that purchase.

.......at least until your review got buried in 400 five-star reviews happy about the price and 600 one-star reviews complaining about the price.

I actually misstated the title of the book. it was "Learn How to Play Poker Like a Pro (Beginner's Basics)". (I honestly don't remember seeing "Beginner's Basics" in the title. That may well have been a later addition.) I just reviewed it now. I gave it 2 stars. I think the whole "Like a Pro" thing was overselling it, and the editing was awful, but I gave it more than one star just based on the fact that it is a competent rule guide.

Here's my actual review.

Anyway, that's how I think price figures into a review. It's got to be based on the value of the content, and to know the value of the content, you have to read the book.

[OtterBooks]

I'm sure someone would enjoy frequently doing a book search and clicking on a book they've never heard of because it had a bunch of reviews and a 4.5 star rating, only to find out that 2/3 of the reviews said something like: "Free! Free! Free! This book cost no money! Great publisher! I love not spending money!!: 5 STARS."

[CallOfCth'reader]

Originally Posted by OtterBooks

I think that sums it up nicely.They don't care that other customers are ok with the price, and they don't want to be "heard;" they want to be obeyed. They're attempting to do harm in order to pressure the seller into handing over entertainment merchandise for less money. Big retailers occasionally bully vendors like this, but it's illegal in most places. The mafia does this to small businesses sometimes, but the Amazon reviewers probably wouldn't have the nerve to do such a thing in person.

Countdown to the invocation of Godwin's Law....

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by CallOfCth'reader

Countdown to the invocation of Godwin's Law....

I actually considered it for fun, but resisted.

[Penforhire]

The average review by non-professional readers is worthless to me even when it sticks to content. The quality of review, on average, is barely batter at book-centric sites like LibraryThing.

Do you really find that if everyone likes it you will too? Take a look at the perpetual Dan Brown bash-thread we have around here somewhere. He's such a top seller that the "average" review must speak highly of him.

The system has an intrinsic flaw. We need a reputation/wuffie system where you can follow people whose opinions you have a history of agreeing with. We can do this manually by seeking out individuals but we have the technology to create a more intelligent agent system aggregating such reviews and new book press.

In light of that flaw I see Amazon's review section as fair game to voice any complaint. Most product complaints seem to be late shipments and such. Fair enough.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

The average review by non-professional readers is worthless to me even when it sticks to content.

See, I'm the complete opposite. I have nothing in common with a "professional reader" so why would I give their reviews more weight? I'll choose everyday, average-joe reader reviews every time. They're usually much more relevant than the navel-gazing "professional" variety.

Originally Posted by Penforhire

Do you really find that if everyone likes it you will too?

Of course not. That's an overly simplistic view of how I and others use reviews (professional or otherwise) to help make purchase decisions.

Many people's positives points are things that I detest in a book; and vice-versa. The negative reviews (based on content) are just as helpful to me. And I guarantee you; 200 5-star reviews praising an author's in-depth "World-Building" skills is a dead giveaway that I will want to avoid that particular exercise in filler and info-dumps. Reviews usually help me NOT purchase something... not the other way around. The same way that I can translate 100; "I can't wait for book two!"'s into "book one has no proper ending... wait until the series is complete."

The only thing that isn't helpful to me is wading through page after page of irrelevant (non-content based) reviews for the relevant ones (content based)--be they negative, positive or amateurish.

[OtterBooks]

Originally Posted by Penforhire

The average review by non-professional readers is worthless to me even when it sticks to content.

I only look for whether or not their reasoning resonates with me, professional review or otherwise.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by J. Strnad

To put it bluntly, you really need to write a book, get an agent, attract a publisher, and get neck-deep into negotiations to comprehend how improbable it is that any author would go to the mat over the ebook price.

But in this case, we are talking a best selling author here. An author who has already found an agent, has a publisher and has the clout to try to dictate pricing. So in this case, I do think the author has to take some responsibly for what is going on. To allow the publisher to screw with your work is not good at all.

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Amazon could easily solve this problem, if they wanted to. They obviously know who purchased a book and who didn't. But Amazon benefits from people pressuring the publishers to lower prices., so they have no problem with people doing this kind of thing.

But, I could have read the book from another source and am putting my review up to help others.

[JSWolf]

Delete this message please

[JSWolf]

I do have a solution to the problem. The $10 price point was one that was accepted by most people. So, price the eBook at $12.00 and then if it gets to be enough of a seller, it drops to $10 and that should make a lot of people happy and it may then sell a lot more.