Kinda bitter sign outside a closing Borders Store

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by ApK

I don't recall the one large Borders that was in my area several years ago having a cafe (though they had a restroom), and the Borders Expresses sure don't.

I went to a Borders Express last Christmas and I had no idea until I left the store that it was a Borders. It didn't sell books at all AFAIK--it had calendars, craft kits, and toys.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

You're not totally accurate. the Koboreader was never Borders exclusive, or even made by them. Kobo is a separate company, that is a business partner of Border's, because Borders subcontracted their ebook store to Kobo. The confusion comes in because Borders was one of the first stores to sell the Kobo Reader, due to that preexisting business relationship allowing for ease of establishing retail sales locations. Other stores quickly followed after Borders.

Even if it wasn't a Borders exclusive, they sold ebooks through it and stocked it in their stores, didn't they? All I really meant was that this was a way that people could've done shopping at Borders w/o leaving their homes.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by KenJackson

That paragraph has a lot of past tense verbs. Borders filed for reorganization under Chapter 11, but many companies survive that and rebound. I'm not counting Borders out just yet. I know many of us are excited by the transition to ebooks, but a lot of people still like to hold paper and want to see and touch before they buy.

There will probably always be some market for paper books, but the question is: Is there enough of a market to sustain Borders? The answer -- at least preliminarily -- seems to be no. B&N is surviving because they've got the Nook, and Amazon diversified from just books long ago, so they're relatively safe (even if they didn't have the Kindle). But it's looking pretty bad for Borders. It might survive as a name of some kind of store, but how does it stay a paper bookstore after this point? The market for paper books isn't going up.

[Hellmark]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

Even if it wasn't a Borders exclusive, they sold ebooks through it and stocked it in their stores, didn't they? All I really meant was that this was a way that people could've done shopping at Borders w/o leaving their homes.

On ebooks sold through it, they didn't get anything. Only time they got anything, was a small percentage when people bought ebooks from borders.com or via the Borders apps. If you bought directly through the reader or from the software included with the reader, like most people do, Borders saw zero action.

[ApK]

Originally Posted by bhartman36

There will probably always be some market for paper books, but the question is: Is there enough of a market to sustain Borders? The answer -- at least preliminarily -- seems to be no. B&N is surviving because they've got the Nook, and Amazon diversified from just books long ago, so they're relatively safe (even if they didn't have the Kindle). But it's looking pretty bad for Borders. It might survive as a name of some kind of store, but how does it stay a paper bookstore after this point? The market for paper books isn't going up.

I don't see evidence that it's an issue of the DTB market not being big enough to sustain them. They have competition and the competition beat them.

That is to say, even if there was a hugely growing paper book market, and B&N was opening stores left and right, Borders may still have this problem.

When the big Borders in my area closed, it had more to do, I think, with the equally big, but much nicer, B&N that opened directly across the road.

As someone above said, there was no reason to go to Borders compared to the alternatives.

[jedifarfy]

Originally Posted by Joykins

I thought the Borders with cafes were required by law to keep a restroom open. And I haven't seen a Borders without one.

The first thing to happen when a Borders was marked for closure was the shutting down of the cafe. All cafe employees were either transferred to the sales floor or fired.

Also, the reason closing Borders have no restrooms isn't because they were torn out. The company that supplies the stores with things like soap and TP will not ship to closing stores as they aren't really a part of the company and have no money to buy it. If the managers or someone chooses to buy the supplies themselves, that's fine. Otherwise they just lock them up. There's no compensation for buying the supplies and no reason to legally leave them open (like if they had a cafe, or if local regulations demand they have certain supplies).

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Hellmark

On ebooks sold through it, they didn't get anything. Only time they got anything, was a small percentage when people bought ebooks from borders.com or via the Borders apps. If you bought directly through the reader or from the software included with the reader, like most people do, Borders saw zero action.

Wow, I didn't realize that. I really thought Borders had a bookstore on their like B&N and Amazon had with the readers they sold. That makes their situation seem much more hopeless.

[khalleron]

When Borders.com launched, which was early in the 2000s, it was merely a portal for. . .

Amazon.

Borders missed the e-commerce boat, both in e-books and p-books, a long time ago.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by ApK

I don't see evidence that it's an issue of the DTB market not being big enough to sustain them. They have competition and the competition beat them.

That is to say, even if there was a hugely growing paper book market, and B&N was opening stores left and right, Borders may still have this problem.

Well, now...
There's a lot of ways to beat this dead horse.

Yes, there are other print book retailers out there.
And, yes, only Borders is doing badly enough to be in bankruptcy proceedings.
But...

None of the other competitors in the *Brick-and-mortar* bookstore business are exactly raking it in. B&N is still slowly bleeding out their cash reserves and looking for a transfusion to finance their transition to ebooks and Books-a-million is barely afloat through what looks like very tight management. (And like Borders, they've outsourced their ebook future. To B&N rather than Kobo.) Indies are still closing left and right and even the poster child of the specialty bookstore, Powell's, is in distress.

My own read is that there is a serious *over-capacity* in the B&M print book business resulting from the double whammy of online competition eroding the value of (relatively) deep in-store catalogs and department store use of heavily-discounted bestsellers as traffic draws. The latter attacks bookstore's cash cows, the former turns their (previously) best assest into a liability. As bad as Border's management has been, they merely compounded a bad situation into a disaster. B&N management hasn't been quite as bad, yet they too are closing stores, remember. They too are downsizing their chain and looking for ways out of *their* expensive storefronts and leases. Border's problem isn't just bad management but rather bad management atop a fading business model.

Border's current situation is just the beginning of a serious death-spiral for Border's and the entire B&M book retailing business. eBooks have *yet* to really impact B&M economics yet; they haven't drawn off enough customers from the cash cow side of the business to be felt. But that day is coming and coming fast.

B&M Print book retailing is going to have to be totally reinvented if it is to survive into the next decade and whatever form it takes (*if* it survives) chains of monster warehouse storefronts are *not* going to be the dominant form. They won't *all* vanish but those that survive will be few and far apart; regional draws, maybe one or two per state or major metro area. Like the above-mentioned Micro-Center, which endures long after the likes of Computerland and CompUSA vanished.

If *all* that the industry sees in the Border's bankruptcy is "bad management" this story will not end well for anybody; there will be sequels.

[Leesiegirl]

But I really read the sign as sad. Many have responded to the sign as a comment on shopping at Borders versus shopping at home, but I kind of saw it as a reflection on publicly accessable bathrooms. I work out in the community all the time and I frequently have to stop someplace to use the restroom as a non-customer. Yes, there area lot of places that will let the public use the toilet, but there are also plenty of places--entire neighborhoods of shops--I have been where even customers can't use the restrooms and never mind the laws, those restrooms are locked and asking for access garners a rude imperative to go pleasure myself. Borders was always one of my favorite places to stop, they didn't notice me in and out, the restroom was always in good shape, and as a result, I often did buy a little something.

My partner and I have a lot of good memories of Borders; spending an evening with a coffee and browsing the stacks was our favorite cheap date. Both the Borders near us are closing, and we feel the loss of the business model keenly.

[DArenson]

The Chinese buffet by my house sells french fries, roast beef, and pizza. Mmm... pizza....

[Joykins]

Originally Posted by Leesiegirl

But I really read the sign as sad. Many have responded to the sign as a comment on shopping at Borders versus shopping at home, but I kind of saw it as a reflection on publicly accessable bathrooms. I work out in the community all the time and I frequently have to stop someplace to use the restroom as a non-customer. Yes, there area lot of places that will let the public use the toilet, but there are also plenty of places--entire neighborhoods of shops--I have been where even customers can't use the restrooms and never mind the laws, those restrooms are locked and asking for access garners a rude imperative to go pleasure myself. Borders was always one of my favorite places to stop, they didn't notice me in and out, the restroom was always in good shape, and as a result, I often did buy a little something.

Same here. It's especially useful when you are out and about with little kids! They have to go all the time!

[ctcntera2]

Originally Posted by Fbone

I took it to mean Borders doesn't sell restrooms but Amazon does.

And they do!
http://www.amazon.com/Saniflo-Sanipl...2454073&sr=8-5

oops. Now that I read further, I see someone beat me to one of the options... doh...

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by ctcntera2

And they do!
http://www.amazon.com/Saniflo-Sanipl...2454073&sr=8-5

oops. Now that I read further, I see someone beat me to one of the options... doh...

[Pushka]

Originally Posted by Lemurion

You know, when I shop on Amazon, I've got a bathroom right there...

Something about shopping from home.

Nice line!

Originally Posted by SolRaven

I can't explain it, there is something about the energy in Borders that makes me feel tired. I'm sure it's a feng shui thing because I don't get that at all when I'm in B&N stores. It could be the low book cases; I always thought that was an odd use of retail space.

Oh my Gosh, I thought it was just me! I have been into Borders stores in Australia, Singapore and the US and I start yawning as soon as I walk in, and just want to find a chair and go to sleep - or get out. You are my twin!