Why are DRM ebooks evil and why should I avoid them like the plague?

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I don't disagree, but again, "Normal readers" will never have to remember the old credit card number in order to simply read their old book.

That's only true as long as they keep the e-book on the same device. Back when I used to upgrade my Palms, if I transferred e-books from one Palm to the next, I had to use the old CC# when I first opened the e-book on the new device. The same holds true if you have to restore your device for some reason: When you reload the software and the books, you have to re-enter the CC#.

Now, it's true that it's not an issue if you simply remove the DRM, but that's a bit like saying, "Not having the key to a house isn't a problem if the door's unlocked." The reason it's a problem is because the DRM is there in the first place. You either have to go through the PITA of remembering or retrieving the CC#, or the PITA of removing the DRM.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

I'm sure that's foremost on everybody's mind. It's not as though we readers really need authors, is it?

There are a lot of people on the forum who act like they don't. Among some, the attitude seems to be, "I don't care if it hurts authors. Let 'em suck it up." (See the thread on one-star reviews due to price on Amazon.)

[rogerVA]

So everybody seems in agreement that DRM books ARE a useful, needed and fair thing afterall? Just kidding. Wow, I'm proud to have started the week's best thread (lol) and in all seriousness I have appreciated the replies. I've learned MUCH and now finally have a grasp on the DRM issue and will approach it accordingly. Thanks.

[FF2]

Originally Posted by rogerVA

So everybody seems in agreement that DRM books ARE a useful, needed and fair thing afterall? Just kidding. Wow, I'm proud to have started the week's best thread (lol) and in all seriousness I have appreciated the replies. I've learned MUCH and now finally have a grasp on the DRM issue and will approach it accordingly. Thanks.

Hey, with threads like this (and the Kindle, don't come to the library thread), you don't need books, you can just read the threads FULL TIME.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by FF2

Hey, with threads like this (and the Kindle, don't come to the library thread), you don't need books, you can just read the threads FULL TIME.

Damn you're on to me!

[rogerVA]

haha!

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

This is technically true, of course. It it doesn't get extended again (Hello, Disney!) we're talking about life + 70 years. Unless we are talking about re-releases near the end of that term (where the author has been dead for, say, 60+ years) I don't think we'll have to worry about that just yet, certainly not for new books by a living author.

Like George Orwell who died in 1950; 2021 will be the end of the Life+70 span?

Mahatma Gandhi, died in 1948; 2019 should see the release of his works?

Adolf Hitler, 1945... 2015 is not too far away.

The issue of ability to remove DRM from entering-public-domain works is not an abstract intellectual one. It's coming up soon in the US, and is a constant issue in other countries.

[mariel9898]

This seems to be new - has anyone heard of this or tried this?

[Please do not post links to DRM removal tools. Our policy is that we permit the discussion of DRM removal in the abstract, but not the provision of detailed instructions for DRM removal, or direct linking to sites where such instructions or tools are hosted. - Moderator]

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by rogerVA

So everybody seems in agreement that DRM books ARE a useful, needed and fair thing afterall? Just kidding. Wow, I'm proud to have started the week's best thread (lol) and in all seriousness I have appreciated the replies. I've learned MUCH and now finally have a grasp on the DRM issue and will approach it accordingly. Thanks.

In all seriousness, glad to have been of help. Conceptually, all data is immortal. You could copy and recopy as media changes, as long as there is a processor that will execute it. This is at odds with data producers, who want the old data to disappear, to make room (and demand) for new data.

Example, you can get emulators to mimic old processors, and let you run old programs/data. Apple II, Atari machines, even the ancient C/PM programs running on the original 8 bit Intel 8080 processors. If the program is unencrypted, and you have a way to get it onto the modern machine, you're in business.

Because of this, data accumulates. And after a while, you find that either you decide to go the rental model, and never keep anything; or the ownership model, in which you will eventually get to the point that you have so much data, you stop buying and just keep using what you've got.

Either is all right, It's a matter of taste. Unfortunately, there is a trend being pushed today (Cloud Computing) to force people to the rent only model. Why forced? Because if the owners of new data will only allow rental, the buyer concept is scrapped. This has happened to Gadgets, look how many no longer have user-replaceable batteries. Such gadgets are long term rentals, when the battery dies, so does the gadget. I have a batteryless (early solar power) calculator. Ir's 27+ years old, and still works fine. No Lithium ion will last past 5 years...

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Like George Orwell who died in 1950; 2021 will be the end of the Life+70 span?

Mahatma Gandhi, died in 1948; 2019 should see the release of his works?

Adolf Hitler, 1945... 2015 is not too far away.

The issue of ability to remove DRM from entering-public-domain works is not an abstract intellectual one. It's coming up soon in the US, and is a constant issue in other countries.

Sadly it's not. We are NOT a life + 70 country.
We are an "everything that wasn't ignored and not renewed before 1964" and are a "in copyright until Congress stop granting extensions" country...

That's why Zane Grey (died 1939) is PD just about everywhere except the US...(for his works released after Dec 31 1922).

The US has allowed exactly one year to fall into the public domain, since 1978...By the time the current extension runs out, in 2018, more years would have been added to material excluded from the public domain, that then entire maximum length of copyright before 1978.

[bhartman36]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Sadly it's not. We are NOT a life + 70 country.
We are an "everything that wasn't ignored and not renewed before 1964" and are a "in copyright until Congress stop granting extensions" country...

That's why Zane Grey (died 1939) is PD just about everywhere except the US...(for his works released after Dec 31 1922).

The US has allowed exactly one year to fall into the public domain, since 1978...By the time the current extension runs out, in 2018, more years would have been added to material excluded from the public domain, that then entire maximum length of copyright before 1978.

To be more specific, this is what the US Copyright Office has to say on the matter:

The term of copyright for a particular work depends on several factors, including whether it has been published, and, if so, the date of first publication. As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. For works first published prior to 1978, the term will vary depending on several factors. To determine the length of copyright protection for a particular work, consult chapter 3 of the Copyright Act (title 17 of the United States Code). More information on the term of copyright can be found in Circular 15a, Duration of Copyright, and Circular 1, Copyright Basics.

Source: U.S. Copyright Office FAQ

[rogue_librarian]

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Like George Orwell who died in 1950; 2021 will be the end of the Life+70 span?

I understand that no works will be entering the PD in the US before 2019, so a few years off still. Are you confident you'll be able to read your current set of ebooks in 2021, DRM or no DRM?

Adolf Hitler, 1945... 2015 is not too far away.

I wasn't planning on getting a copy of "My Struggle" anytime soon, in either pbook or ebook form. That said, I don't think any of his books (are there others?) are currently in print. The Free State of Bavaria closely guards the copyright, and, yes, it will expire in a few years. Perhaps we'll see a critically-annotated version then, but of course the comments would be covered by copyright.

The issue of ability to remove DRM from entering-public-domain works is not an abstract intellectual one.

At this point it certainly isn't the most pressing one. But, again: even though you're free to use the text as you see fit doesn't mean your DRMed ebook has to allow for it. Large numbers of PD works are still sold, and many of these ebook versions have DRM. It's not more sinister than DRM per se, in my opinion.

[avantman42]

Originally Posted by rogue_librarian

I understand that no works will be entering the PD in the US before 2019, so a few years off still. Are you confident you'll be able to read your current set of ebooks in 2021, DRM or no DRM?

I am, but then I'm enough of a geek to do things like convert my entire Calibre library to a new format if I think there's any chance that I won't be able to read them otherwise.

If your books are in something like HTML or ePub then there's a very good chance you'll still be able to read it - HTML is text with formatting markers, and ePub is zipped HTML. If I thought there was no other way of preserving them, I'd convert them all to plain text.

Of course, that's not necessarily true for most people, but I certainly expect to be able to read my current set of ebooks in 10 years.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by mariel9898

This seems to be new - has anyone heard of this or tried this?

[Please do not post links to DRM removal tools. Our policy is that we permit the discussion of DRM removal in the abstract, but not the provision of detailed instructions for DRM removal, or direct linking to sites where such instructions or tools are hosted. - Moderator]

I'm sorry, could you re-phrase the question; to which bit are you referring when you say "new", DRM removal or the policy.

[TheSFReader]

One entirely missing point in this discussion is "Legacy" : What will we leave to our great^10 grand-children if everything is "encoded" ? What will they be able to recover from our culture ? Digital preservation and Bit Rot is already problematic in our own lifespans, but with the added DRM hurdle, we will only leave them random "bits" of information, with nothing else...
If it all continues, our descendants will be left with no "Giants" to stand on the shoulders, but only crumbling sand ... (Standing on the shoulders of giants)