Why are DRM ebooks evil and why should I avoid them like the plague?

[wodin]

Originally Posted by queentess

I cannot authorize an ebook for another device or convert it to another (newer) format.

I can.

[stonetools]

So you're saying that DRM protects the industry because it prevents the age-old habit of passing a book along to your co-workers, who then pass it around the office until half the staff decide they're going to buy the next one?

Please note, Baen encourages casual sharing; and they are on record as making more money from eBooks than from Canada: and as someone who has managed a bookstore in Canada, I can say that Canadians spend more per capita on books than Americans.

DRM neither prevents lost sales nor increases sales.
__________________

This has really been done to death on the other thread. I really think you should just re-read it. We're not talking about passing a book to your office mate, we're talking about sharing your ebook with all your Facebook friends (and having them share their ebooks with you). That's not passing a book around the office. it ain't the same game, it ain't the same ballpark, it aint the same league, it aint even the same sport.

REad this link and the comments please:

http://www.idealog.com/blog/what-the...n-of-the-cloud

Also this :http://www.idealog.com/blog/drm-may-...-protect-sales

Money quote:

Robyn, I agree that the word-of-mouth generated by sharing has value. I
agree that casual sharing can stimulate sales. The question is whether it
will stimulate more sales than it will cost. I believe that with a big name
branded writer, the risk of lost sales is substantial and real. And I can
see that for somebody trying to build an audience, the equation right now
would be different. But right now, half the sales or more for just about all
successful writers are print and for many it is 70 or 80 percent. When the
lion's share of sales are digital for all writers, and that day is not far
off, the situation will be quite different.

I wish we didn't live in a world (and in a country) where so much pride is
taken by so many people in getting things cheap or free. But that's where we
are. If I know that any book a friend has could be given to me for free
without the friend giving up her owhn copy, I'd never buy one the friend has
and expect them never to have to buy one I have. I could see little groups
forming that just forwarded every ebook purchase to everybody else in the
group.

It *might not* be a total disaster, I agree. But I find it difficult to see
how anybody can assure me that it won't be.

Mike

The writer consults for the publishing industry. I haven't seen anybody respond effectively to his questions, either on the thread or here at this forum. See if you can give it a shot.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by queentess

Argument By Scenario:
telling a story which ties together unrelated material, and then using the story as proof they are related.

Files I create are not the same as paying $15 for an ebook. I can save my files in new formats. I cannot authorize an ebook for another device or convert it to another (newer) format.

(Shrug)

Apparently somebody discovered a logic website. Mind you don't hurt yourself.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Most authors, publishers and booksellers disagree. They see the figures, they have the expertise and above all they have the responsibility to make these decisions. I'll go with them over an interested amateur who isn't in the business and who thinks he knows better than the experts. Sorry.
You can spend your money how you like. In the meantime, there has been a sharp rise in the purchase of ebooks by average readers who don't care anything about DRM. I think the publishers care a lot more about that , than the theories of the digerati.

Pardon me for asking, but....If you want to go with the publishers over the interested amateur (Appeal To Authority), why are you even bothering to discuss this on this forum? You aren't going to change our minds without verifiable facts, you have no explanation as to why DRM is an advantage to consumers. You just call us an extremist name (digerati). (To the local gang here, imaging calling the writer of the Red yarns as a digerati.)

Of course I'll spend my money as I please. But as a reminder of how snarled your "facts" are, let me ask you the following questions.

Originally Posted by stonetools

In the meantime, there has been a sharp rise in the purchase of ebooks by average readers who don't care anything about DRM.

How did you "experts" arrive at the fact that the purchasers didn't buy a DRM'ed book and strip off the DRM? What percent did and what percent didn't? And how did they measure it?

It seems to me that those would be very important numbers for analysis for both sides of the argument.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by stonetools

This has really been done to death on the other thread. I really think you should just re-read it. We're not talking about passing a book to your office mate, we're talking about sharing your ebook with all your Facebook friends (and having them share their ebooks with you). That's not passing a book around the office. it ain't the same game, it ain't the ballpark, it aint the same league, it aint even the same sport.

REad this link and the comments please:

http://www.idealog.com/blog/what-the...n-of-the-cloud

Also this :http://www.idealog.com/blog/drm-may-...-protect-sales

Money quote:



The writer consults for the publishing industry. I haven't seen anybody respond effectively to his questions, either on the thread or here at this forum. See if you can give it a shot.

On his first post, he didn't even know basic statistics. You need a universe of at least 30 data point to be statistically valid. 7 is little more valid that 4. So 7 of 7 agreeing with him is correct and true, but 2 of 4 (50%) disagreeing with him is "not statistically meaningful". Wrong! Neither is statistically valid. I learned that 30 years ago in STAT 101.

Since he's working with false premises, I can't accept any conclusion based upon them as being valid. Sorry.

I'll look at the next article...

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by stonetools

This has really been done to death on the other thread. I really think you should just re-read it. We're not talking about passing a book to your office mate, we're talking about sharing your ebook with all your Facebook friends (and having them share their ebooks with you). That's not passing a book around the office. it ain't the same game, it ain't the ballpark, it aint the same league, it aint even the same sport.

REad this link and the comments please:

http://www.idealog.com/blog/what-the...n-of-the-cloud

Also this :http://www.idealog.com/blog/drm-may-...-protect-sales

Money quote:



The writer consults for the publishing industry. I haven't seen anybody respond effectively to his questions, either on the thread or here at this forum. See if you can give it a shot.

The second, (first chronologically, you'd think they'd be listed in proper order) article had even less semantic content. Let me give it a go.

1. How well does it stop casual sharing? Unknown. Unknown because we don't have any meaningful numbers of casual sharing, attempts foiled by DRM, and sharing done successfully with stripped DRM.

Example. Aunt Mamie wants to pass Lust in the Locomotive to Cousin Joan. Cousin Joan can't read it, and tells Auntie Mamie she can't. Did it stop there. Maybe, maybe not. Auntie Mamie may ask little Joey, "Why can't I pass this to Cousin Joan?" Little Joey says "Gimme your reader for a few minutes", cracks the DRM and give Auntie Mamie a clear copy and tells her to send that one to Cousin Joan. Little Joey may even teach her how to run the DRM crack software herself, not wanting to be involved with titles like Lust in the Locomotive. How do you measure it? Because....

2. Google DRM breaking programs. They're out there in abundance, and not on servers within US jurisdiction. Little Joey may have been breaking DRM for years...After all...

3. Not everybody is a complete idiot (Congress excluded). Most of them haven't been burned by DRM losses - yet. Once they are seriously inconvenienced a time or two, they'll learn. And they won't be saying thank you...

[queentess]

Originally Posted by stonetools

(Shrug)

Apparently somebody discovered a logic website. Mind you don't hurt yourself.

It's amazing how many fallacies you use to argue. I bow to your abilities.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by queentess

Burden Of Proof:
the claim that whatever has not yet been proved false must be true (or vice versa). Essentially the arguer claims that he should win by default if his opponent can't make a strong enough case.

There may be three problems here. First, the arguer claims priority, but can he back up that claim ? Second, he is impatient with ambiguity, and wants a final answer right away. And third, "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

(Shrug)

Apparently somebody discovered a logic website. Mind you don't hurt yourself.

And apparently someone discovered a stupid tree.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by stonetools

If you can't come up with a better answer , then I conclude that DRM is the best answer....

That's the part that everyone here gets, and you've managed to convince yourself that we don't: No matter what anyone says, and no matter how well they say it, you will conclude that DRM is the best answer. You will always conclude that DRM is the best answer, because it's not in your personal best interest to choose a position in the customer's best interest.

DRM never helps the end user. You are constantly advocating for something that is at best neutral, and often harmful, to your audience. You're really not going to convince us that things that hurt us are a good idea.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

The second, (first chronologically, you'd think they'd be listed in proper order) article had even less semantic content. Let me give it a go.

1. How well does it stop casual sharing? Unknown. Unknown because we don't have any meaningful numbers of casual sharing, attempts foiled by DRM, and sharing done successfully with stripped DRM.

Example. Aunt Mamie wants to pass Lust in the Locomotive to Cousin Joan. Cousin Joan can't read it, and tells Auntie Mamie she can't. Did it stop there. Maybe, maybe not. Auntie Mamie may ask little Joey, "Why can't I pass this to Cousin Joan?" Little Joey says "Gimme your reader for a few minutes", cracks the DRM and give Auntie Mamie a clear copy and tells her to send that one to Cousin Joan. Little Joey may even teach her how to run the DRM crack software herself, not wanting to be involved with titles like Lust in the Locomotive. How do you measure it? Because....

2. Google DRM breaking programs. They're out there in abundance, and not on servers within US jurisdiction. Little Joey may have been breaking DRM for years...After all...

3. Not everybody is a complete idiot (Congress excluded). Most of them haven't been burned by DRM losses - yet. Once they are seriously inconvenienced a time or two, they'll learn. And they won't be saying thank you...

Whatever, dude. You have no statistical evidence whatsover that going without DRM would NOT result in lost sales through large scale casual sharing. Given the example of the music industry, there is every reason to believe that it WOULD result in a collapse in revenue. Based on those facts, for the publishing industry to go without DRM would be a leap of faith- a leap of faith based on the digerati's unsupported belief that "this won't the hurt the publishing industry-honest injun. And did you know that DRM is really annoying? "
I find the digerati's willingness to gamble the livelihood of authors and publishers on an unsupported theory just because it 's inconvenient to them quite callous and self centered, to be honest.
But then that's me . Apparently the digerati are quite willing to gamble on the livelihood of others.

[stonetools]

Originally Posted by kennyc

And apparently someone discovered a stupid tree.

Hey, there's no call to go beating on quentess like that.

[kennyc]

Originally Posted by stonetools

Hey, there's no call to go beating on quentess like that.

My point exactly. Why don't you find a new dead horse to beat or somewhere else to beat it. Oh wait, I forgot, they PAY YOU to do this.

[Worldwalker]

Originally Posted by stonetools

I find the digerati's willingness to gamble the livelihood of authors and publishers on an unsupported theory just because it 's inconvenient to them quite callous and self centered, to be honest.

"The digerati" ... "the digerati" ... "the digerati" ... y'know, that's the people you're talking to. You might try not being what you think is insulting.

You're also being self-contradictory. Apparently everyone but you can see this. As far as I can tell, your definition of "the digerati" is (aside from your MobileRead audience) technically competent people who read ebooks. Read that again: technically competent people who read ebooks. In other words, people who are capable of stripping DRM if they find it inconvenient. The one group of people who are not arguing against DRM out of personal involvement, because DRM doesn't affect us unless we choose to let it. If someone on MobileRead, or someone like us, wants an illicit ebook, we know where to go to get it (I've been there a lot lately*). If we want to give an ebook to a thousand of our closest friends, we know how to do it. DRM does not inconvenience us.

In fact, our best interest would be served by continuing with the status quo, and pretending that DRM works perfectly and stops Bad Things (tm) from happening, so that easy-to-strip DRM remains the standard and illicit ebooks remain readily available on easy-to-find download sites. At least, our best interest in the short term, and if the only thing we're interested in is having access to DRM-free books ourselves, and taking a self-centered view of the subject.

I'll say again what I said elsewhere: We are book addicts. We need our books like an addict needs his drugs. We want books, more books, and still further books. Since we can't write fast enough ourselves, even though a fair number of people here are authors, we have to depend on authors writing books we can buy. For that reason -- for purest self-interest -- it is essential to us, at least those of us who don't share my love for books older than my parents, that the book industry remain healthy and thriving. Read that part again: it's in our best interest.

We do not oppose DRM because it "inconveniences" us. It doesn't. Stripping DRM is the work of a few moments to anyone here, at least anyone who falls within your definition of "digerati", and obtaining an illicit copy of a book is downright trivial. We oppose DRM because it's bad for authors and for the market. We oppose DRM because it doesn't do what its proponents claim it does, and it does do very harmful things that they (and you) gloss over. There would be a lot more disagreement if it was beneficial to authors and harmful to readers, but there's no question of balance; it's not beneficial to authors, and the only people it does benefit are companies like Amazon, and further back companies selling DRM.

*no, I haven't turned to the dark side; I've been looking for certain material on behalf of the rights owners. But it's fun to give stonetools a momentary feeling of hope!

[stonetools]

DRM never helps the end user.

You miss the point , bro. DRM is like copyright or patents. None of these directly help the end user. However, they indirectly help the end user by giving incentives to artists to produce goods for the end user-goods that would not be produced if they were not assured that they would be able to make a living from producing these goods-publishing these books in the case of authors.
Now I understand why authors would prefer not to write if they think that people would simply just buy one book and share it with all their Facebook friends . You apparently think that they should write for you anyway, regardless of whether they can make a living or not. I think that they will go elsewhere if they can't be assured of making a living: Joe Abercrombie is a great fantasy author who wrote screenplays before he wrote fantasy novels. If he is not making money writing fantasy novels, he'll just go back to writing screenplays, regardless of what you think he should do or whether you think he should just be happy with less income.