Sorry Kindle, You're Not Invited - Page 17

ApK · 04-03-2011, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lemurion

That's the leap I need to see justification for - not simply the removal of DRM - but the removal of DRM from files that are not yours.

Here's my argument from last time 'round if you're interested:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...38#post1311138

Let's get one thing clear though: The files are all yours. No one comes and sucks the bits back off of your drive when you're done. It's the specific license you have to use the content of the file that is different. In other words, it's ALWAYS someone else's property. If you buy, you have license to use it personally forever, if you borrow, you have license to use it personally for x days. That's the only difference as far as I can tell.

ApK

kindlekitten · 04-03-2011, 06:06 PM

so we can stop

I've bumped the thread in the kindle forums

khalleron · 04-03-2011, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockdaMan

All that you said and including those that say that a device is imperfect because it lacks library e-book access.
s.

Well, an ereader that doesn't support library lending *is* imperfect. Doesn't mean it's 'bad', but it doesn't have every feature available.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

If my local library has an event like this, which is an event of high probability, I would set up outside with a laptop, "calibre" and my Kindle and show people that it is indeed possible to read downloaded library books on said Kindle.

You know, Amazon sent a DMCA notice to this very site, regarding a certain software that made library lending on a Kindle work.

Not for hosting the software, mind you, which MR did not do, for merely *discussing* it.

Amazon does not want you to use a Kindle for library books - they have made that abundantly clear, even called in the lawyers over it.

So why support them on an issue they don't want you to?

ApK · 04-03-2011, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalleron

You know, Amazon sent a DMCA notice to this very site, regarding a certain software that made library lending on a Kindle work.

Not for hosting the software, mind you, which MR did not do, for merely *discussing* it.

Amazon does not want you to use a Kindle for library books - they have made that abundantly clear, even called in the lawyers over it.

So why support them on an issue they don't want you to?

Can you point me to any details about this?

khalleron · 04-03-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Can you point me to any details about this?

I couldn't find the original MR posting, quickly, but here's the CNET write-up on the issue.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-10196424-38.html

Also this

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...ht=amazon+dmca

ApK · 04-03-2011, 09:54 PM

Thanks.
FWIW, it seems to me that Amazon was concerned with piracy, not library book reading per se, and in the wide net cast by the lawyers, they caught some library related tools as well.

khalleron · 04-03-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Thanks.
FWIW, it seems to me that Amazon was concerned with piracy, not library book reading per se, and in the wide net cast by the lawyers, they caught some library related tools as well.

No, the tools involved only gave owners their own Kindles' PID numbers and fixed a problem buying DRMed Mobi and using library Mobi on Kindle.

They had nothing to do with removing DRM.

ApK · 04-03-2011, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khalleron

No, the tools involved only gave owners their own Kindles' PID numbers and fixed a problem buying DRMed Mobi and using library Mobi on Kindle.

They had nothing to do with removing DRM.

Exactly. The letter cited in the CNN link says they were doing this to go after tools used to circumvent DRM to violate copyright. They cast a wide net and caught these tools by mistake.
The letter (as far as I can see in the link) said nothing about Amazon wanting to prevent people from reading library books on the Kindle. It says they want to protect Kindle books from copyright violations.

Wouldn't be the first time a cease and desist letter was wrongly targeted.
Lawyer sees "DRM" and "Kindle" and "download" in the same Google hit, and they send a letter, right or wrong.

Note, I'm not saying Amazon WANTS library books on the Kindle, I'm just saying this issue doesn't seem to indicate they don't.
ApK

Giggleton · 04-03-2011, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ApK

Exactly. The letter cited in the CNN link says they were doing this to go after tools used to circumvent DRM to violate copyright. They cast a wide net and caught these tools by mistake.
The letter (as far as I can see in the link) said nothing about Amazon wanting to prevent people from reading library books on the Kindle. It says they want to protect Kindle books from copyright violations.

Wouldn't be the first time a cease and desist letter was wrongly targeted.
Lawyer sees "DRM" and "Kindle" and "download" in the same Google hit, and they send a letter, right or wrong.

Note, I'm not saying Amazon WANTS library books on the Kindle, I'm just saying this issue doesn't seem to indicate they don't.
ApK

Yeah, this isn't really a legal matter. I like Kindles, I like my library and I like books. Makes sense to do what I can to use all three together and help others who wish to do so as well.

iandix · 04-04-2011, 12:29 AM

The Problem as I see it, is not the fact that a Kindle owner is using their local library or that they are stripping DRM from the books so they can read them on their Kindle. If they wish to do that then no skin off my noise. The problem as I see it ..is Kindlekitty telling people who may not know or understand the subject that it is legal and nothing wrong with doing it.

There are people out there who may have a different view of morality, and may find breaking a contract (and yes when you join the library you are making a contract) and then stripping DRM from books and making copies of books that DO NOT belong to you as wrong. If she said " oh there are ways to borrow books and read them on your kindle but it might not be 100% legal to do, but the chance of getting in trouble is very very slim.. then I think this debate would not have happened.

saying over and over it's for personal use so it's fine, does not make it legal, you did not buy the book it does not belong to you, so this whole personal use thing is no valid. You borrowed a book under strict restrictions that you are suppose to follow, if you wish to break this contract and gain benefits by deception, then that is up to you... just don't mislead people...tell them the whole story and let them decide.

Giggleton · 04-04-2011, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iandix

The Problem as I see it, is not the fact that a Kindle owner is using their local library or that they are stripping DRM from the books so they can read them on their Kindle. If they wish to do that then no skin off my noise. The problem as I see it ..is Kindlekitty telling people who may not know or understand the subject that it is legal and nothing wrong with doing it.

KindleKitten is not misleading anyone, she is simply stating facts, her view of the universe which is just as valid as anyone else's. According to KindleKitten there is nothing wrong with stripping the DRM from a book, and so there is nothing wrong with stripping DRM from a book.

Now someone else might say well yes there is, I placed the DRM on that book and I would very much prefer if you did not strip that DRM, in fact I am telling you that it is wrong to strip the DRM from that book.

It would be unethical and immoral to not explain to everyone that they have been, are, and forever will be, able to do whatever they want whenever they want, just try to be nice please thanks.

Poppaea · 04-04-2011, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

KindleKitten is not misleading anyone, she is simply stating facts, her view of the universe which is just as valid as anyone else's. According to KindleKitten there is nothing wrong with stripping the DRM from a book, and so there is nothing wrong with stripping DRM from a book.

Now someone else might say well yes there is, I placed the DRM on that book and I would very much prefer if you did not strip that DRM, in fact I am telling you that it is wrong to strip the DRM from that book.

It would be unethical and immoral to not explain to everyone that they have been, are, and forever will be, able to do whatever they want whenever they want, just try to be nice please thanks.

What a lot of BS! It is unethical to make someone aware of laws and, heaven beware!, possibly act according to them??? Grow up.

Barbara1955 · 04-04-2011, 04:23 AM

My 1st eReader was a Nook! BUT I didnt know it only used MP3 NOT WMA that my library has [audiobooks] When I took it to my Library THEY were showing me HOW to make a WMA into a MP3 to use on the Nook!! WTHeck I was being told HOW to do an ILLEGAL thing to beable to use the NOOK!!! So I bet I could take my Kindle to my library & they would show me How to remove the DRM so I could get the eBooks!! hummm
What I really like to know is how to remove the DMR from my Amazon PAID books so I can store & use them on my other eReader!!

Asawi · 04-04-2011, 04:53 AM

Did the process of converting WMA to Mp3 involve DRM stripping or was it just a matte of converting?
If there was no DRM stripping involved it can't be compared.

Poppaea · 04-04-2011, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mickeyfinn

After skimming this entire thread I have made up my mind!

No ereader for me.

I'll stick with the public library.

I think about 63% of you people suffer from some form of mental disability and the other 37% are only seriously addled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nohmi2

Isn't it a sad state of affairs that because of evangelical hysterics, and

proselyting about the device which they happen own, two possible buyers

have now been turned off of buying a 'reader'.

Ego driven posts and 'look at me' comments have again clouded the issue.

Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nyssa

Although I agree with your description of some of the posts, I disagree that this thread actually lead to those two individuals making a decision. Using an e-reader is a personal choice. How could one be so easily swayed? They either came here looking for a justification of a decision already made, or are also in the "look at me" category.

If the comments were posted in a "Which one should I buy?" thread that actually talked about the differences - weighing the pros and cons, of the many e-readers; or if the comments expressed an actual reason for said decision then maybe they would hold more weight.

You can stop worrying. The decision to not buy was obviously never made...

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=128189

04-04-2011, 12:29 AM	#250
iandix Addict Posts: 295 Karma: 109308 Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: NSW Australia Device: nook touch a Nook 3g (rooted) and a nookcolor (rooted)	The Problem as I see it, is not the fact that a Kindle owner is using their local library or that they are stripping DRM from the books so they can read them on their Kindle. If they wish to do that then no skin off my noise. The problem as I see it ..is Kindlekitty telling people who may not know or understand the subject that it is legal and nothing wrong with doing it. There are people out there who may have a different view of morality, and may find breaking a contract (and yes when you join the library you are making a contract) and then stripping DRM from books and making copies of books that DO NOT belong to you as wrong. If she said " oh there are ways to borrow books and read them on your kindle but it might not be 100% legal to do, but the chance of getting in trouble is very very slim.. then I think this debate would not have happened. saying over and over it's for personal use so it's fine, does not make it legal, you did not buy the book it does not belong to you, so this whole personal use thing is no valid. You borrowed a book under strict restrictions that you are suppose to follow, if you wish to break this contract and gain benefits by deception, then that is up to you... just don't mislead people...tell them the whole story and let them decide. Last edited by iandix; 04-04-2011 at 12:33 AM.

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04-03-2011, 06:06 PM	#242
kindlekitten Professional Adventuress Posts: 13,368 Karma: 50260224 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: The Olympic Peninsula on the OTHER Washington! (the big green clean one on the west coast!) Device: Kindle, the original! Times Two! and gifting an International Kindle	so we can stop I've bumped the thread in the kindle forums

04-03-2011, 09:54 PM	#246
ApK Award-Winning Participant Posts: 7,389 Karma: 68329346 Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: NJ, USA Device: Kindle	Thanks. FWIW, it seems to me that Amazon was concerned with piracy, not library book reading per se, and in the wide net cast by the lawyers, they caught some library related tools as well.

04-04-2011, 04:23 AM	#253
Barbara1955 Non-Techy Posts: 4,455 Karma: 15499273 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: WV---USA Device: Samsung Cell Phone & Amazon Fires & Kobo eReaders	My 1st eReader was a Nook! BUT I didnt know it only used MP3 NOT WMA that my library has [audiobooks] When I took it to my Library THEY were showing me HOW to make a WMA into a MP3 to use on the Nook!! WTHeck I was being told HOW to do an ILLEGAL thing to beable to use the NOOK!!! So I bet I could take my Kindle to my library & they would show me How to remove the DRM so I could get the eBooks!! hummm What I really like to know is how to remove the DMR from my Amazon PAID books so I can store & use them on my other eReader!!

04-04-2011, 04:53 AM	#254
Asawi Gadgetoholic Posts: 1,467 Karma: 3865860 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Sweden Device: Kobo Libra2, Tolino Vision 6	Did the process of converting WMA to Mp3 involve DRM stripping or was it just a matte of converting? If there was no DRM stripping involved it can't be compared.