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Old 03-27-2011, 01:54 PM   #106
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I appreciate the motives, but current technology doesn't allow this to be a safe law, imo. It breaks the presumption of innocence.

Plus, the dictum that it's better that ten guilty men go free than one innocent man be punished.

Those principles are too important to set aside for any amount of money, I think.
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:15 PM   #107
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I'm not naive enough to think it won't. But at least, when you taped your mate's LP, you didn't then go and share it with 10,000 of your closest friends, as routinely happens with torrent uploads. That's the difference.
No, there was just 10,000 people all taping it for their friends instead. But the number of people listening to it for free will have remained fairly constant. If it hadn't, the music industry wouldn't still be making billions in profit every year.
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:18 PM   #108
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Oh, come off it. Just how prevalent do you honestly believe that is?
That's the thing about not needing any evidence, you end up with a net full of dolphins.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/...tening_le.html

http://beingthreatened.yolasite.com/your-stories.php
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Old 03-27-2011, 02:35 PM   #109
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Originally Posted by HarryT
You know damned well that you're breaking the law, and you choose to do so
You scream we're criminals but it's the idiocy of this law that we were all debating here. You and another agree with it while the rest of us think it's foolish.

You say we're stealing money from your pocket but the book you're currently proofreading, Bleak House by Dickens, is long out of copyright and the text is freely available via Gutenberg.

The media giants scream we're taking their money but they didn't mind when they sold us tat and then refused to provide a refund because we'd opened the shrink wrapping. They're also happy to sell an ebook at the same price as the existing pbook but put no effort into the conversion other than run it through an OCR device. Even when you buy your ebook you find you don't even own a copy but apparently just have some strange sort of license to read it.

Perhaps the following quote is the most applicable here:

Hell hath no fury like a vested interest masquerading as a moral principle
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:17 PM   #110
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You say we're stealing money from your pocket but the book you're currently proofreading, Bleak House by Dickens, is long out of copyright and the text is freely available via Gutenberg.
Mike, stay fair, even if you two have very opposite opinions on this topic.

This book can be downloaded for free here on mobileread, too:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12763

Like many others that Harry created and proofread without asking for anything in return.
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:27 PM   #111
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Mike, stay fair, even if you two have very opposite opinions on this topic.

This book can be downloaded for free here on mobileread, too:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12763

Like many others that Harry created and proofread without asking for anything in return.
I didn't know that - thanks Harry for doing this work for us and I offer my humble apologies.
It doesn't change my opinion on this particular law though
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Old 03-27-2011, 03:40 PM   #112
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Even when arguing the Brits are so incredibly polite. It's a joy to watch.
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Old 03-27-2011, 04:16 PM   #113
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I didn't know that - thanks Harry for doing this work for us and I offer my humble apologies.
It doesn't change my opinion on this particular law though
Mike - in case you were under the misapprehension that I have some vested commercial interest here, I assure you that I do not. I am an ardent supporter of the public domain, and all the eBooks that I create, I place with the greatest pleasure in the public domain, and want everyone to be able to enjoy reading them free of charge. However, I am equally ardent in my support for the rights of copyright-holders.
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:00 PM   #114
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However, I am equally ardent in my support for the rights of copyright-holders.
What about the rights of the wrongly accused?
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:29 PM   #115
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Harry is truly a hero for all the beautiful and painstaking work he's done for us. I've enjoyed his work very much (Big Trollope fan) and can't thank him enough for it.

While your name isn't on the books, Harry, it's always in my thoughts as I read, with gratitude for all the time and effort you put into it to make them beautiful for us. I'm sure the original authors would be happy to know their works are in your careful hands.

/ot
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:37 PM   #116
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I have to say that this law is garbage and would never fly in the US.
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Old 03-27-2011, 05:38 PM   #117
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Mike - in case you were under the misapprehension that I have some vested commercial interest here, I assure you that I do not.
I saw your signature regards proofreading and understandably drew the (wrong) conclusion that you had a commercial interest. The quote obviously then doesn't apply to you then but only to the media giants drawing up the law.

If anyone's interested I found this "fun" quiz on proofreading. I had to kick myself for getting one wrong!
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:06 PM   #118
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Are you saying, Mike, that anyone who buys media should be permitted to illegally download it with impunity?
Seeing as downloading is legal in the US (except a very few cases that are covered by other laws), I'm sure all Americans would feel that way.
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:41 PM   #119
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Love to know where the "music industry" is making billions every year... I'd like to invest in that rather than all the companies currently making losses, being taken over and fighting to stay in business... don't let hyperbole screw up your arguments, facts support them much better...


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No, there was just 10,000 people all taping it for their friends instead. But the number of people listening to it for free will have remained fairly constant. If it hadn't, the music industry wouldn't still be making billions in profit every year.
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Old 03-27-2011, 11:46 PM   #120
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Drive by and cloning isn't that prevalent but a large number of people do not secure their wi-fi adequately and, if this law survives the current challenges from the ISPs, it will become more popular... Just where I live, I can normally see 9 wi-fi routers of which 3 are fully open and accessible... a full third can easily be used and I wouldn't have to drive anywhere, just login, do illegal D/Ls and be untraceable without full house-to-house searches of everyone in range...


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Oh, come off it. Just how prevalent do you honestly believe that is?
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