Should high school students have to read Shakespeare? - Page 6

Joykins · 03-25-2011, 02:48 PM

I read _War and Peace_ in abridged version and I gotta say it was awesome.

Freeshadow · 03-25-2011, 02:50 PM

the only film I think I saw that was a rather unedited version of the book was The Last Emperor. I think there was only one fact changed. According to Pu-Yis autobiography he fled his wedding night.

ficbot · 03-25-2011, 03:12 PM

Some interesting points being made here. I guess what it comes down to for me is that I see this as part of history, and therefore, in a sort of 'overview in case you don't take it in university and this is all you'll ever get' capacity, I don't think it can be skipped. We don't skip Word War 2 because of the adult themes when we teach history; we don't skip the constitution because it has archaic language; we don't skip teaching a lot of things which students may find difficult, because they are a part of our shared history and it is our job as elders who are charged with passing it on to make sure that children, who don't always know better and wouldn't always choose something since they lack the proper context to make an informed decision, are exposed to it.

Elfwreck · 03-25-2011, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ficbot

I don't think it can be skipped. We don't skip Word War 2 because of the adult themes when we teach history; we don't skip the constitution because it has archaic language; we don't skip teaching a lot of things which students may find difficult, because they are a part of our shared history and it is our job as elders who are charged with passing it on to make sure that children, who don't always know better and wouldn't always choose something since they lack the proper context to make an informed decision, are exposed to it.

We don't teach WWII and the Constitution as part of "the arts." We don't tell kids they're supposed to be entertainment.

There's a big difference between teaching Shakespeare' as "an important influence on the history of literature," the way Gutenberg is often mentioned, and teaching his works as "stories you should find interesting and relevant."

Harmon · 03-25-2011, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Half the problem, though, is that we put children off great literature for life by forcing them to read what are very definitely NOT children's books before they're able to appreciate them.

It will come as no great surprise to many people that one of my favourite authors is Dickens. Like every other British schoolchild I was force-fed Dickens at school and HATED his books. It was only when I was in my late 30s that I rediscovered him and learned to love his books for the great literature that they are. You just can't appreciate Dickens' biting social satire when you're a teenager (or at least I couldn't).

Amen, brother! I was force-fed Great Expectations, which put me off Dickens until my 30s as well. Then, somehow, I stumbled on Pickwick and it was off to the races. I binged on Dickens for the next year or so. I still think that the first chapter of Bleak House is one of the best things I've ever read.

Fbone · 03-25-2011, 05:31 PM

Speaking of Bleak House. Has anyone seen the 1985 BBC's adaptation starring Diana Rigg?

spellbanisher · 03-25-2011, 06:42 PM

Now this person show do the whole play in animation. It would be perfect for kids.

DixieGal · 03-25-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Half the problem, though, is that we put children off great literature for life by forcing them to read what are very definitely NOT children's books before they're able to appreciate them.

It will come as no great surprise to many people that one of my favourite authors is Dickens. Like every other British schoolchild I was force-fed Dickens at school and HATED his books. It was only when I was in my late 30s that I rediscovered him and learned to love his books for the great literature that they are. You just can't appreciate Dickens' biting social satire when you're a teenager (or at least I couldn't).

That is what happened with me and Jane Austen. I did not like the Victorian lit in the first place, then I ended up taking 2 similar classes in my final semester, just ticking off the remaining odds and ends. Ever since, anything Austen just makes me angry.

Harmon · 03-25-2011, 08:48 PM

Shakespeare is only secondarily "literature." It is primarily "theatre." To teach students the plays merely by reading them rather than performing them, or witnessing a performance, is absurd. You might as well take the kids to see the new Jane Eyre movie and claim you are having them read the novel.

One should no more teach Shakespeare by having students read the plays than teach opera by having them read the libretto.

There are wonderful BBC productions of the plays available on DVD. And that DiCaprio movie is excellent - Shakespeare would have loved it! (I had no interested in seeing that movie - my kids more or less forced it on me.)

Reading the script can be useful as a tool to help understand a play, and to teach vocabulary & usage. But one should not elevate the part to the position of the whole.

So the question "should high school students have to read Shakespeare" should be answered "Yes, Shakespeare should be taught in high school, but not by making the kids read the plays."

The play's the thing.

Harmon · 03-25-2011, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DixieGal

That is what happened with me and Jane Austen. I did not like the Victorian lit in the first place, then I ended up taking 2 similar classes in my final semester, just ticking off the remaining odds and ends. Ever since, anything Austen just makes me angry.

That's too bad. Austen is a wonderful writer & a moralist second only to Dr. Johnson. Try Persuasion.

spellbanisher · 03-25-2011, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

That's too bad. Austen is a wonderful writer & a moralist second only to Dr. Johnson. Try Persuasion.

I doubt Persuasion can persuade her.

kennyc · 03-25-2011, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spellbanisher

Doesn't the Leonardo Dicaprio version use the Shakespearian language? If it does I do not see a problem with seeing Shakespeare movies instead of reading them. After all, his plays were meant to be seen and not read.

Tend to agree, but probably more appropriate to actually see the play live for the full effect.

I know that's not always possible though so next best thing, eh?

AprilHare · 03-25-2011, 09:14 PM

The most Shakespeare I ever got involved with in high school (indeed, while I was at school) was a partial reading of Macbeth.

Freeshadow · 03-25-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AprilHare

The most Shakespeare I ever got involved with in high school (indeed, while I was at school) was a partial reading of Macbeth.

One can just hope, that you have been so fine
not to have used them as a pickup line:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Banquo in Act I; Acene III

By each at once her choppy finger laying
Upon her skinny lips. You should be women,
And yet your beards forbid me to interpret
That you are so.

SeaBookGuy · 03-25-2011, 09:39 PM

I never read a word of The Bard in high school -- my first exposure came 20 years later in a college lit course.

03-25-2011, 06:42 PM	#82
spellbanisher Guru Posts: 826 Karma: 6566849 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bay Area Device: kindle keyboard, kindle fire hd, S4, Nook hd+	Now this person show do the whole play in animation. It would be perfect for kids. Last edited by spellbanisher; 03-25-2011 at 06:45 PM.

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03-25-2011, 02:48 PM	#76
Joykins Wizard Posts: 1,610 Karma: 9211856 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: kindle Oasis 2018, kindle 4 NT, kindle PW2, iPhone, iPad mini	I read _War and Peace_ in abridged version and I gotta say it was awesome.

03-25-2011, 02:50 PM	#77
Freeshadow temp. out of service Posts: 2,815 Karma: 24285242 Join Date: May 2010 Location: Duisburg (DE) Device: PB 623	the only film I think I saw that was a rather unedited version of the book was The Last Emperor. I think there was only one fact changed. According to Pu-Yis autobiography he fled his wedding night.

03-25-2011, 03:12 PM	#78
ficbot Wizard Posts: 2,409 Karma: 4132096 Join Date: Sep 2008 Device: Kindle Paperwhite/iOS Kindle App	Some interesting points being made here. I guess what it comes down to for me is that I see this as part of history, and therefore, in a sort of 'overview in case you don't take it in university and this is all you'll ever get' capacity, I don't think it can be skipped. We don't skip Word War 2 because of the adult themes when we teach history; we don't skip the constitution because it has archaic language; we don't skip teaching a lot of things which students may find difficult, because they are a part of our shared history and it is our job as elders who are charged with passing it on to make sure that children, who don't always know better and wouldn't always choose something since they lack the proper context to make an informed decision, are exposed to it.

03-25-2011, 05:31 PM	#81
Fbone Is that a sandwich? Posts: 8,296 Karma: 101697116 Join Date: Jun 2010 Device: Nook Glowlight Plus	Speaking of Bleak House. Has anyone seen the 1985 BBC's adaptation starring Diana Rigg?

03-25-2011, 08:48 PM	#84
Harmon King of the Bongo Drums Posts: 1,630 Karma: 5927225 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Excelsior! (Strange...)	Shakespeare is only secondarily "literature." It is primarily "theatre." To teach students the plays merely by reading them rather than performing them, or witnessing a performance, is absurd. You might as well take the kids to see the new Jane Eyre movie and claim you are having them read the novel. One should no more teach Shakespeare by having students read the plays than teach opera by having them read the libretto. There are wonderful BBC productions of the plays available on DVD. And that DiCaprio movie is excellent - Shakespeare would have loved it! (I had no interested in seeing that movie - my kids more or less forced it on me.) Reading the script can be useful as a tool to help understand a play, and to teach vocabulary & usage. But one should not elevate the part to the position of the whole. So the question "should high school students have to read Shakespeare" should be answered "Yes, Shakespeare should be taught in high school, but not by making the kids read the plays." The play's the thing.

03-25-2011, 09:14 PM	#88
AprilHare Wizard Posts: 2,981 Karma: 11862367 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Sony Reader PRS-T2	The most Shakespeare I ever got involved with in high school (indeed, while I was at school) was a partial reading of Macbeth.

03-25-2011, 09:39 PM	#90
SeaBookGuy Can one read too much? Posts: 2,029 Karma: 2487799 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Naples, FL Device: Kindle PW 3, Sony 350 and 650	I never read a word of The Bard in high school -- my first exposure came 20 years later in a college lit course.