Old Internet - Page 3

MJK2111 · 03-21-2011, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbcohen

Here's a link for anyone interested in old school computing or simply want to take a walk down memory lane or simply interested in what old school computing was in the 80's http://pc-museum.com

Not bad, but really just kid stuff.

Real manly-man systems can be found here:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/ex...ame_album.html

In a former life, I serviced everything on the list newer than the 3081...which by the way was water-cooled...

wodin · 03-21-2011, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MJK2111

Not bad, but really just kid stuff.

Real manly-man systems can be found here:
http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/ex...ame_album.html

In a former life, I serviced everything on the list newer than the 3081...which by the way was water-cooled...

I'm reminded of my very first experience (not very much) with computer systems. At Maine Yankee (nuclear power plant) we had an IBM 700 system. It was used pretty much exclusively as a data logger. The Atomic Energy Commission didn't trust computers enough to allow them to have any control functions.

In the Chemistry lab, we also had a spectrum analyzer that had a next generation computer (don't remember the brand), that had more power in one 4U rack drawer than the data logger had in a whole room full of junk.

I remember one night when I was on the midnight to 8AM watch, and I tripped the wrong breaker

. I shut down the data logger, and had to wait for the geeks to come in the next morning to reboot it.

ardeegee · 03-21-2011, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabee

I'll bow to you expertise mate. But there was some sort of compression algorithm on both modems that was standard for the time and 14-4 sound familiar.

14,400 is one of the standard speeds. That number means that the modem is capable of sending or receiving 14,400 bits per second under perfect conditions. Which is 1,800 bytes per second. A megabyte is 1,048,576 bytes, so to send one megabyte of data (with no compression, and ignoring that there are bits used for parity and other overhead, and that real world speeds rarely match theoretical maximums) means that it will take 1048576/1800 seconds-- or 9 minutes, 42 seconds. A 14,400 modem is by definition not able to send an uncompressed file larger than around 80 kilobytes in 45 seconds. To be able to send a 3 megabyte file in that time would require it to be compressed by 38x.

MJK2111 · 03-21-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeegee

14,400 is one of the standard speeds. That number means that the modem is capable of sending or receiving 14,400 bits per second under perfect conditions. Which is 1,800 bytes per second. A megabyte is 1,048,576 bytes, so to send one megabyte of data (with no compression, and ignoring that there are bits used for parity and other overhead, and that real world speeds rarely match theoretical maximums) means that it will take 1048576/1800 seconds-- or 9 minutes, 42 seconds. A 14,400 modem is by definition not able to send an uncompressed file larger than around 80 kilobytes in 45 seconds. To be able to send a 3 megabyte file in that time would require it to be compressed by 38x.

?

jkeene · 03-21-2011, 06:23 PM

So, wandering back to the old internet, back in 1982, when IPv4 was less than a year old. Armed with a Hayes Smartmodem, blistering along at 300 baud, I entered ATDT and some phone number I've long forgotten. Connected to a local internet concentrator, where the password was "@ D C A". Not sure why that stuck with me, probably because my buddy and I surmised that pattern was to use the nearest airport code (this was near D.C.).

There were no websites, no gopher sites, just some ftp and telnet sites. If you were good, you could beg or charm your way into getting a free account on someone's host. Just had to talk like a grad student or a contractor, and the odds were pretty good.

HarryT · 03-22-2011, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardeegee

14,400 is one of the standard speeds. That number means that the modem is capable of sending or receiving 14,400 bits per second under perfect conditions. Which is 1,800 bytes per second. A megabyte is 1,048,576 bytes, so to send one megabyte of data (with no compression, and ignoring that there are bits used for parity and other overhead, and that real world speeds rarely match theoretical maximums) means that it will take 1048576/1800 seconds-- or 9 minutes, 42 seconds. A 14,400 modem is by definition not able to send an uncompressed file larger than around 80 kilobytes in 45 seconds. To be able to send a 3 megabyte file in that time would require it to be compressed by 38x.

As you say, there was generally a stop bit and a parity bit, so 10 bits per byte is a better approximation, as well as making the maths a lot easier

.

Xenophon · 03-22-2011, 04:36 PM

HarryT posted earlier that ARPANET began in 1962. And he's right, mostly. That's when the project began. The ARPANET expanded to two sites in the late 1960s (1968, IIRC, but I may not RC), then to four sites the following year. Those first four were USC (the University of Southern California), MIT (you know who...), BB&N (Bolt Beranik and Newman, who were the prime contractor for the ARPANET IMP processors, which ran the actual networking code), and the University of Utah. I forget the order in which those four institutions connected up, except that BB&N was one of the first two and UofU was fourth.

I first "got on the Internet" about two months after UofU was connected. I was 6 or 7 at the time. My father was a professor of Computer Science at UofU; his brother was a researcher at BBN. My uncle wrote a little math tutor program that ran on one of the computers at BBN. I would pick up the telephone that sat on the teletype in my Dad's home office, dial the magic phone number to connect to the computer at the University, and then painstakingly type the magic sequence of gibberish that got me connected up to the math tutor program (conveniently taped to the teletype, just above the keyboard). Then I'd happily sit there for hours doing arithmetic.

A little math problem would appear on the teletype. I'd think a bit, and then answer it. If I got it right, the bell on the teletype would go "DING DING DING DING DING!" If I got it wrong, the paper tape punch on the teletype would write out about 2 feet of all-ones -- making a sound like a very loud raspberry: "Thppppppppt!" As I answered correctly, the problems got more difficult. If I started making mistakes, they got easier.

I've been "on the net" more or less continuously since then.

So that little math tutor program, which never had more than three users -- me, plus two of my cousins (my older sister was already doing more advanced math) -- is my entry in the "Old Internet" sweepstakes. Thanks for triggering this trip down memory lane!

wodin · 03-22-2011, 09:28 PM

AH HA! Whoda thunk, the birth of on line computer gaming was a math tutor!

wannabee · 03-22-2011, 11:36 PM

I thought this might be of interest.

AprilHare · 03-23-2011, 12:52 AM

Breaking news: my university may be blocking gopher protocol!

wannabee · 03-23-2011, 08:56 PM

OH NO!

pholy · 03-24-2011, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabee

I thought this might be of interest.

Hmmm - Aside from the mention of the Zuse and the Manchester Mk 1, it's sort of US centric. No mention of the Atlas or Ferranti computers, nor most of the other early British computers (there was a book by that title - I gave it to my ex-boss who was an ex-Ferranti engineer),

Oh, don't forget the Sinclair ZX-1 !

AprilHare · 03-24-2011, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pholy

Oh, don't forget the Sinclair ZX-1 !

Don't worry. We're all trying to forget.
If we're going that far back, for Australians we must mention the Microbee.

My school even had a Microbee LAN!

AprilHare · 03-24-2011, 08:26 AM

Quick, now that I've brought it up.. try out Gopherspace, make sure you're not being blocked too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannabee

OH NO!

Freeshadow · 03-24-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AprilHare

I'd have to include IRC in Old Internet.
We've all switched to Facebook etc.
but IRC is still superior if you want a chat with a large group of people.

Yes, it's one of the older protocols
What? Ah in some different reality
And this is the reason why every bigger open source project/linuxdistro/ -forum still maintain their own IRC servers, or rooms on IRC networks

I assure you IRC is still alive and kicking

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03-21-2011, 06:23 PM	#35
jkeene Connoisseur Posts: 83 Karma: 85586 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Kindle 3	So, wandering back to the old internet, back in 1982, when IPv4 was less than a year old. Armed with a Hayes Smartmodem, blistering along at 300 baud, I entered ATDT and some phone number I've long forgotten. Connected to a local internet concentrator, where the password was "@ D C A". Not sure why that stuck with me, probably because my buddy and I surmised that pattern was to use the nearest airport code (this was near D.C.). There were no websites, no gopher sites, just some ftp and telnet sites. If you were good, you could beg or charm your way into getting a free account on someone's host. Just had to talk like a grad student or a contractor, and the odds were pretty good.

03-22-2011, 04:36 PM	#37
Xenophon curmudgeon Posts: 1,487 Karma: 5748190 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Redwood City, CA USA Device: Kobo Aura HD, (ex)nook, (ex)PRS-700, (ex)PRS-500	HarryT posted earlier that ARPANET began in 1962. And he's right, mostly. That's when the project began. The ARPANET expanded to two sites in the late 1960s (1968, IIRC, but I may not RC), then to four sites the following year. Those first four were USC (the University of Southern California), MIT (you know who...), BB&N (Bolt Beranik and Newman, who were the prime contractor for the ARPANET IMP processors, which ran the actual networking code), and the University of Utah. I forget the order in which those four institutions connected up, except that BB&N was one of the first two and UofU was fourth. I first "got on the Internet" about two months after UofU was connected. I was 6 or 7 at the time. My father was a professor of Computer Science at UofU; his brother was a researcher at BBN. My uncle wrote a little math tutor program that ran on one of the computers at BBN. I would pick up the telephone that sat on the teletype in my Dad's home office, dial the magic phone number to connect to the computer at the University, and then painstakingly type the magic sequence of gibberish that got me connected up to the math tutor program (conveniently taped to the teletype, just above the keyboard). Then I'd happily sit there for hours doing arithmetic. A little math problem would appear on the teletype. I'd think a bit, and then answer it. If I got it right, the bell on the teletype would go "DING DING DING DING DING!" If I got it wrong, the paper tape punch on the teletype would write out about 2 feet of all-ones -- making a sound like a very loud raspberry: "Thppppppppt!" As I answered correctly, the problems got more difficult. If I started making mistakes, they got easier. I've been "on the net" more or less continuously since then. So that little math tutor program, which never had more than three users -- me, plus two of my cousins (my older sister was already doing more advanced math) -- is my entry in the "Old Internet" sweepstakes. Thanks for triggering this trip down memory lane!

03-22-2011, 09:28 PM	#38
wodin Illiterate Posts: 10,279 Karma: 37848716 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: The Sandwich Isles Device: Samsung Galaxy S10+, Microsoft Surface Pro	AH HA! Whoda thunk, the birth of on line computer gaming was a math tutor!

03-22-2011, 11:36 PM	#39
wannabee Media Bloke Posts: 2,382 Karma: 113956855 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NSW - Australia Device: iOS	I thought this might be of interest.

03-23-2011, 12:52 AM	#40
AprilHare Wizard Posts: 2,981 Karma: 11862367 Join Date: Apr 2008 Device: Sony Reader PRS-T2	Breaking news: my university may be blocking gopher protocol!

03-23-2011, 08:56 PM	#41
wannabee Media Bloke Posts: 2,382 Karma: 113956855 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NSW - Australia Device: iOS	OH NO!

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