Copyright is Out of Sight - Page 47

Giggleton · 03-07-2011, 02:27 PM

What will we be reading in 10 years?

The same things we have been reading for the last few thousand I imagine, but with new twists and plot developments.

What will we be reading them on?

The same things we are reading them on now, paper and electronics. Mostly electronics though. Maybe even 90% of all text will be read from electronic devices.

Who will be writing the books?

I plan to write some, do you?

How will the books be distributed? Ah, there’s the rub.

Where do I go to get my books these days?

library.nu
demonoid.me
amazon.com
feedbooks.com
library2go.lib.overdrive.com
The real world, AKA my local library.

Usually in that order. I wouldn’t exactly call that a part of the darknet.

Books on all of the sites mentioned above are placed there by individuals, perhaps the actual author of the book, perhaps someone who cared enough about the text to put in some work and make the book available to others.

Should we be hindering the efforts of these book sharers?

Those who are undoubtedly helping to shape the future of our species consciousness, turning the collective thoughts from those implanted by a few well known, highly funded ideas towards the ideal of complete freedom of individual expression.

In the future all books will be available, the full text of humanity accessible and relevant texts will be placed before our eyes by merely uttering keyphrases to the supposed emptiness of space.

Google’s project book, along with their recent acquisition of reader hardware, could be very interesting, and very beneficial, but the project is hindered by current copyright law.

What if there was a way to compensate the author of a text every time their text was read? There are already numerous ways to implement such a system, so why does copyright still exist? To protect the author of a text from unlicensed distribution. What if a license was no longer needed to distribute a text, and all texts maintained a method of payment to the author within the text itself?

Book distribution is going Social.

An author of a text uploads their work, it doesn’t matter where the work is uploaded. Let’s say for example to goodreads.com.

Along with the text of the book a simple message, “Here you go, let me know what you think.”

For mainstream authors, the opinions of the text would start coming in fast and furious, far too many to keep up with. But we should be more concerned with independent authors, those who have yet to find an audience, those with ideas that might need to be heard but are lost in the sea of the great textual ocean, minnows amongst sharks.

All mainstream authors were once independent, indeed the idea of independence, relying solely on yourself is but a stepping stone towards the mainstream, where your ideas, the idea of YOU is now implanted in the collective consciousness.

A Skeptic might tell you that this is evolution at work, it is only natural for once independent authors to find the mainstream. This is true, but evolution and nature are always present. Modifying the system of discovery, enabling more independent authors to become mainstream, this is simply an evolution as well. In fact, the nature of the publishing industry has been to place independent authors in a position so as to become mainstream, and to do so as quickly as possible. This just makes good business sense, the more people that know about an author, the more people that are then likely to contribute to the work effort of that author.

The economics of a copyright free world are organic.

Back to goodreads, or the theoretical social book reading site that has the ability host the actual books. If this was the site of first upload, a discussion of the book would undoubtedly spring up. Since all books are now copyable, it would seem to not make sense for an author to actually charge for their book, a suggested donation tag could be added to the book. Those who enjoy the writings of the author, especially those who enjoy discussing the writings of the author would be very willing to pay for those writings, and to fund future writings of the author. The key is to create a meaningful place for these discussions to occur.

Perhaps these discussions will take place between the pages of the book itself.
see kindle.amazon.com for primitive implementation.

Groucho54 · 03-12-2011, 12:46 AM

My further thoughts on this subject are that analogies with other more identifiable acts of theft are a confusion of the issue and the typical way the 'industry' with a vested interest would like us all to think... Well I'm not prepared to think the way they'd wish just because they wish it and because from all I can determine they want nothing more than to protect their cash cow... They don't really give two hoots for the struggling artist.. They are in the money business - it is that simple.
The notion of copyright is a relatively new one but plagiarism is not the same... nobody who copies a CD, DVD or EBook electronically tries to pass off this work as being their own idea - well, at least - not any normal person without delusions.
The biggest intellectual property thieves in history were probably Thomas Alva Edison and Alexander Graham-Bell who it seems had a little finesse going on with the patent office clerks that enabled them to steal other people's ideas and patent them as their own. But we are not talking about that kind of crime here are we. If you wrote out the entire content of a book - word for word - and kept it as your own copy.. would that be copyright theft? There comes a point when copyright protection becomes untenable. That we have got there so fast is testament to nothing more than the technology of electronics and in no small part because of over-charging by the industry. The media industry have created a market for copy by stiffing the public. I can buy a CD of a great classical work for 50p (30 US Cents) and there is a profit in it for someone.. so why do the Music Industry moguls think £15 is a fair price for the work of their struggling artist? I still maintain that most creative people I know like the idea of their work being listened to, seen or read by the widest possible audience and the mechanism for this used to be by traditional formal publication arrangements that allowed publishers the latitude to rip people off - but now? The revenue model of 'try it and if you like it send me a dollar' is becoming more likely to prevail along side those who still prefer to own a hard-copy.

Enkidu of Abydos · 03-12-2011, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I don't know much about America

Neither do the people who live there (US that is)...

Giggleton · 03-16-2011, 09:55 PM

Today I thought (Am thinking) a little bit about digital bookstores in a copyright free world.

For our purposes we are going to have to make a firm distinction between digital and physical goods. Our courts have made many distinctions, I don't think this one is that difficult to make.

We can imagine two online sites selling the same digital goods. One charges for their digital goods, while the other gives them away. We will call these stores authentic and inauthentic respectively. One of these stores (the authentic) is preferred over the other, why?

Feedback is a fixture of the authentic store.

The authentic store will offer a forum for the creators of books to interact with their readers. Feedback is an integral part of creation and is crucial for new and developing creators. Feedback allows the creator gauge how their work is affecting their users, and will give the creator much to consider for their future creations.

The authentic store will offer a much higher royalty rate than the inauthentic store. We can assume that the authentic store will offer a near 100% royalty rate, excepting for administrative costs of the store. The inauthentic store might offer royalty payments as well, both stores might rely on advertising for revenue, but for the inauthentic store, this will be the sole source of their revenue. We would expect that advertising plus user purchases would enable higher royalty payments through the authentic store.

At the moment, I don't know how many people take royalty payments into consideration when purchasing their digital goods, but in the future I expect the number of people who consider this to increase. Teaching the children about the fundamentals of arts creation and dissemination would be akin to teaching them about copyright I suppose. Albeit slightly different, and perhaps better.

Authors and other digital creators will attach themselves to a specific store (reverse patronage) that has shown itself to be benevolent towards other creators and thus the successful authentic store will grow.

The user will want to patronize the authentic store for its authenticity. It's nearness to the creator.

...

mr ploppy · 03-17-2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

At the moment, I don't know how many people take royalty payments into consideration when purchasing their digital goods, but in the future I expect the number of people who consider this to increase.

People buy products. They don't care how the money they pay for those products is shared out.

Giggleton · 03-17-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

People buy products. They don't care how the money they pay for those products is shared out.

I care, I tell the people I know about royalty structures and then they care as well.

mr ploppy · 03-17-2011, 09:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

I care, I tell the people I know about royalty structures and then they care as well.

They're just pretending to care to keep you happy.

Enkidu of Abydos · 03-17-2011, 09:36 AM

Who wouldn't want to keep a cute white kitty with blue eyes, a pink nose and pink ears happy ? I'd scratch him behind his ears right now !

Giggleton · 03-17-2011, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

They're just pretending to care to keep you happy.

"Amazon only gives a 35% cut for books sold at 99 cents."

"That's bullshit"

"Yeah, I think they don't want people to sell at that price."

HarryT · 03-17-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giggleton

"Amazon only gives a 35% cut for books sold at 0.99 cents."

"That's bullshit"

"Yeah, I think they don't want people to sell at that price."

Selling a book for under 1 cent is really not a commercially viable proposition. I don't know what Amazon's costs are, but I strongly suspect that they exceed 1 cent per sale.

mr ploppy · 03-17-2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Selling a book for under 1 cent is really not a commercially viable proposition. I don't know what Amazon's costs are, but I strongly suspect that they exceed 1 cent per sale.

The only real cost I can think of would be the cost of sending it over 3G. I'm sure they could make it wifi only for cheap ebooks if it was much of a cost. I think the real reason they pay a low rate for cheap ebooks is to encourage people to price them at $2.99 or above.

Elfwreck · 03-17-2011, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Selling a book for under 1 cent is really not a commercially viable proposition. I don't know what Amazon's costs are, but I strongly suspect that they exceed 1 cent per sale.

Groucho54 · 03-18-2011, 02:35 AM

Mr Ploppy,

"People buy products. They don't care how the money they pay for those products is shared out."

Whilst I tend to agree with you on the whole, I am making a guess that people who read books tend to think about matters like this in more depth..

The ethical distribution of profits from food production is an example, where fair-trading is becoming more important to the end-user and the person whose labours should be rewarded.

However, I don't equate the profits of publishers with the struggling African producer of the cocoa bean.

The new model of electronic distribution could be the undoing of the large publishing houses. Is that good or bad? The jury's still out.

I tend to side with the idea of revenue streams without middle-men being preferable. Where the end-user and creator are less remote from each other and the arbiters of good taste don't stifle creativity on the altar of commercialism.

Giggleton · 03-18-2011, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Selling a book for under 1 cent is really not a commercially viable proposition. I don't know what Amazon's costs are, but I strongly suspect that they exceed 1 cent per sale.

lol, thanks for pointing out the typo, do you have any evidence that selling things for less than a cent is not actually commercially viable?

HarryT · 03-18-2011, 03:22 AM

What typo?

03-07-2011, 02:27 PM	#691
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	What will we be reading in 10 years? The same things we have been reading for the last few thousand I imagine, but with new twists and plot developments. What will we be reading them on? The same things we are reading them on now, paper and electronics. Mostly electronics though. Maybe even 90% of all text will be read from electronic devices. Who will be writing the books? I plan to write some, do you? How will the books be distributed? Ah, there’s the rub. Where do I go to get my books these days? library.nu demonoid.me amazon.com feedbooks.com library2go.lib.overdrive.com The real world, AKA my local library. Usually in that order. I wouldn’t exactly call that a part of the darknet. Books on all of the sites mentioned above are placed there by individuals, perhaps the actual author of the book, perhaps someone who cared enough about the text to put in some work and make the book available to others. Should we be hindering the efforts of these book sharers? Those who are undoubtedly helping to shape the future of our species consciousness, turning the collective thoughts from those implanted by a few well known, highly funded ideas towards the ideal of complete freedom of individual expression. In the future all books will be available, the full text of humanity accessible and relevant texts will be placed before our eyes by merely uttering keyphrases to the supposed emptiness of space. Google’s project book, along with their recent acquisition of reader hardware, could be very interesting, and very beneficial, but the project is hindered by current copyright law. What if there was a way to compensate the author of a text every time their text was read? There are already numerous ways to implement such a system, so why does copyright still exist? To protect the author of a text from unlicensed distribution. What if a license was no longer needed to distribute a text, and all texts maintained a method of payment to the author within the text itself? Book distribution is going Social. An author of a text uploads their work, it doesn’t matter where the work is uploaded. Let’s say for example to goodreads.com. Along with the text of the book a simple message, “Here you go, let me know what you think.” For mainstream authors, the opinions of the text would start coming in fast and furious, far too many to keep up with. But we should be more concerned with independent authors, those who have yet to find an audience, those with ideas that might need to be heard but are lost in the sea of the great textual ocean, minnows amongst sharks. All mainstream authors were once independent, indeed the idea of independence, relying solely on yourself is but a stepping stone towards the mainstream, where your ideas, the idea of YOU is now implanted in the collective consciousness. A Skeptic might tell you that this is evolution at work, it is only natural for once independent authors to find the mainstream. This is true, but evolution and nature are always present. Modifying the system of discovery, enabling more independent authors to become mainstream, this is simply an evolution as well. In fact, the nature of the publishing industry has been to place independent authors in a position so as to become mainstream, and to do so as quickly as possible. This just makes good business sense, the more people that know about an author, the more people that are then likely to contribute to the work effort of that author. The economics of a copyright free world are organic. Back to goodreads, or the theoretical social book reading site that has the ability host the actual books. If this was the site of first upload, a discussion of the book would undoubtedly spring up. Since all books are now copyable, it would seem to not make sense for an author to actually charge for their book, a suggested donation tag could be added to the book. Those who enjoy the writings of the author, especially those who enjoy discussing the writings of the author would be very willing to pay for those writings, and to fund future writings of the author. The key is to create a meaningful place for these discussions to occur. Perhaps these discussions will take place between the pages of the book itself. see kindle.amazon.com for primitive implementation. Last edited by Giggleton; 03-07-2011 at 02:31 PM.

03-16-2011, 09:55 PM	#694
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	Today I thought (Am thinking) a little bit about digital bookstores in a copyright free world. For our purposes we are going to have to make a firm distinction between digital and physical goods. Our courts have made many distinctions, I don't think this one is that difficult to make. We can imagine two online sites selling the same digital goods. One charges for their digital goods, while the other gives them away. We will call these stores authentic and inauthentic respectively. One of these stores (the authentic) is preferred over the other, why? Feedback is a fixture of the authentic store. The authentic store will offer a forum for the creators of books to interact with their readers. Feedback is an integral part of creation and is crucial for new and developing creators. Feedback allows the creator gauge how their work is affecting their users, and will give the creator much to consider for their future creations. The authentic store will offer a much higher royalty rate than the inauthentic store. We can assume that the authentic store will offer a near 100% royalty rate, excepting for administrative costs of the store. The inauthentic store might offer royalty payments as well, both stores might rely on advertising for revenue, but for the inauthentic store, this will be the sole source of their revenue. We would expect that advertising plus user purchases would enable higher royalty payments through the authentic store. At the moment, I don't know how many people take royalty payments into consideration when purchasing their digital goods, but in the future I expect the number of people who consider this to increase. Teaching the children about the fundamentals of arts creation and dissemination would be akin to teaching them about copyright I suppose. Albeit slightly different, and perhaps better. Authors and other digital creators will attach themselves to a specific store (reverse patronage) that has shown itself to be benevolent towards other creators and thus the successful authentic store will grow. The user will want to patronize the authentic store for its authenticity. It's nearness to the creator. ... Last edited by Giggleton; 03-16-2011 at 09:57 PM.

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03-12-2011, 12:46 AM	#692
Groucho54 Feckless e-jit Posts: 7 Karma: 39 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cyprus Device: Kindle	My further thoughts on this subject are that analogies with other more identifiable acts of theft are a confusion of the issue and the typical way the 'industry' with a vested interest would like us all to think... Well I'm not prepared to think the way they'd wish just because they wish it and because from all I can determine they want nothing more than to protect their cash cow... They don't really give two hoots for the struggling artist.. They are in the money business - it is that simple. The notion of copyright is a relatively new one but plagiarism is not the same... nobody who copies a CD, DVD or EBook electronically tries to pass off this work as being their own idea - well, at least - not any normal person without delusions. The biggest intellectual property thieves in history were probably Thomas Alva Edison and Alexander Graham-Bell who it seems had a little finesse going on with the patent office clerks that enabled them to steal other people's ideas and patent them as their own. But we are not talking about that kind of crime here are we. If you wrote out the entire content of a book - word for word - and kept it as your own copy.. would that be copyright theft? There comes a point when copyright protection becomes untenable. That we have got there so fast is testament to nothing more than the technology of electronics and in no small part because of over-charging by the industry. The media industry have created a market for copy by stiffing the public. I can buy a CD of a great classical work for 50p (30 US Cents) and there is a profit in it for someone.. so why do the Music Industry moguls think £15 is a fair price for the work of their struggling artist? I still maintain that most creative people I know like the idea of their work being listened to, seen or read by the widest possible audience and the mechanism for this used to be by traditional formal publication arrangements that allowed publishers the latitude to rip people off - but now? The revenue model of 'try it and if you like it send me a dollar' is becoming more likely to prevail along side those who still prefer to own a hard-copy.

03-17-2011, 09:36 AM	#698
Enkidu of Abydos Master of Disaster Posts: 386 Karma: 55466 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Split, Croatia Device: Sony Reader PRS-505	Who wouldn't want to keep a cute white kitty with blue eyes, a pink nose and pink ears happy ? I'd scratch him behind his ears right now !

03-18-2011, 02:35 AM	#703
Groucho54 Feckless e-jit Posts: 7 Karma: 39 Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Cyprus Device: Kindle	Mr Ploppy, "People buy products. They don't care how the money they pay for those products is shared out." Whilst I tend to agree with you on the whole, I am making a guess that people who read books tend to think about matters like this in more depth.. The ethical distribution of profits from food production is an example, where fair-trading is becoming more important to the end-user and the person whose labours should be rewarded. However, I don't equate the profits of publishers with the struggling African producer of the cocoa bean. The new model of electronic distribution could be the undoing of the large publishing houses. Is that good or bad? The jury's still out. I tend to side with the idea of revenue streams without middle-men being preferable. Where the end-user and creator are less remote from each other and the arbiters of good taste don't stifle creativity on the altar of commercialism.

03-18-2011, 03:22 AM	#705
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,556 Karma: 93383099 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	What typo?