How long before we see a LIMIT on the number of reads we are "allowed" - Page 6

DiapDealer · 03-14-2011, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

Like what? I'm still pretty innocent to this DRM thing. If it's downloaded and stored on your kindle, won't it be safe?

Yes it's perfectly safe.
As long as there is no repeat of the 1984 fiasco -- and eReader technology and DRM schemes never change -- and your Kindle (and Amazon) lasts forever and you never have the desire to move your library to a different platform... it's perfectly safe.

wyndslash · 03-14-2011, 10:50 AM

Well, I've always thought I'd just do something about it when the time comes since for the moment, I can't imagine reading on anything else but a kindle. Still, might be better to be safe than sorry...But after the DRM is stripped, I'd have to sideload the book now, yes?

abookreader · 03-14-2011, 10:52 AM

If it is downloaded and stored on your Kindle it is safe

As long as you still own your Kindle
As long as your Kindle is still operational
As long as you don't wish to read it on another device

or alternately

As long as a method to remove the DRM remains valid

Then you get into

As long as Amazon has kept their promise to store it in your Cloud archive (books disappeared a couple of months ago and Amazon said nothing to the buyers. It was up to them to discover the books were missing and then contact Amazon)

As long as Amazon is a viable company

and

as long as Amazon keeps their promise to never again remove content from a person's Kindle (a little like God and Noah and the Rainbow)

Much easier to strip as you buy and then back-up. Then you really don't have to worry so much about what Amazon is up to

(The term "Amazon" is pretty much inter-changeable with other retailers in this post. People can and have "lost" their books from other stores just as easily.)

wyndslash · 03-14-2011, 10:58 AM

Hmm guess you're right. Good thing calibre is good at managing my books for me as I am a messy person and just useless with manual archiving. And darn, if only businessmen had noble intentions. Ah well.

Marseille · 03-14-2011, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

This is all pure paranoia, IMHO. Nobody is suggesting, and nor is there the slightest evidence to suggest that anyone is even THINKING of suggesting, that such a restriction be imposed.
...
Haven't we got enough things to talk about with "the real world", rather than panicking about imaginary "wrongs"?

If you're going to consume paranoia, the pure form is best. And what have you got against imagination?

Andrew H. · 03-14-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Marseilles

If you're going to consume paranoia, the pure form is best. And what have you got against imagination?

No, paranoia is best mixed with fear. And surprise. And ruthless efficiency. And an almost fanatical devotion to the pope! [/mp]

mr ploppy · 03-14-2011, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worldwalker

If the companies selling DRM-locked ebooks are being honest about their reasons, they're failing in their goals -- they're screwing over their customers and not even mildly annoying the pirates. If they're succeeding in their goals, we have to wonder why they want to screw over their customers and don't care about the pirates, and I can't come up with a scenario that isn't bad for the good guys. So either they're failing or they're lying, and neither one is a good thing.

I think they're being conned by the companies that sell DRM "solutions". It's a bit like bringing in an army of consultants to look for efficiency savings and spending more on their fees than you would be able to save in 20+ years. They probably do that as well — it's the sort of thing that shareholders demand.

mr ploppy · 03-14-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

Well, I've always thought I'd just do something about it when the time comes since for the moment, I can't imagine reading on anything else but a kindle. Still, might be better to be safe than sorry...But after the DRM is stripped, I'd have to sideload the book now, yes?

It would be worth keeping a disinfected copy locally just in case, but if you don't read anything that some organised group of nutters might object to they will probably be safe on Amazon.

But I would do it now while it is still relatively easy and is still borderline legal to do in some countries and doesn't (yet) carry the death penalty in countries where it has been outlawed.

wyndslash · 03-14-2011, 11:58 AM

Woah, death penalty? Harsh! I think corruption should carry a death penalty (as it does in Singapore)

Sweetpea · 03-14-2011, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

Like what? I'm still pretty innocent to this DRM thing. If it's downloaded and stored on your kindle, won't it be safe?

Theoretically yes. And Amazon is such a big company, the chances of them going down are remote.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

Well, I've always thought I'd just do something about it when the time comes since for the moment, I can't imagine reading on anything else but a kindle. Still, might be better to be safe than sorry...But after the DRM is stripped, I'd have to sideload the book now, yes?

No.

My main reason for stripping DRM is simple: I want to be able to read that book on various devices, using various formats.

If you only have a Kindle, and only can imagine you reading on a Kindle, your main reason for stripping DRM would be purely for back-up purposes. You can still download the book via whispernet, but you'd also have a copy, safe from Amazon, which you can sideload if, for some reason, the book dissapears from your Amazon account.

mr ploppy · 03-14-2011, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyndslash

Woah, death penalty? Harsh! I think corruption should carry a death penalty (as it does in Singapore)

What sort of anti-piracy laws do they have in Singapore if corruption is outlawed? That would make it impossible for entertainment industry trade bodies to write their own clauses into such laws.

wyndslash · 03-14-2011, 12:42 PM

As I understand it (based on my sister who lives there), they are paid vey highly so that if a politician still tries to cheat and steal money and be corrupt, that it may warrant a death penalty. I have yet to see it be enforced, though.

OtterBooks · 03-14-2011, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

When every page has been viewed. The only fiction books I would see that being a problem with would be short story anthologies. Some people would flip through the boring ones, but others would go to the contents and navigate to the next one from there. The flippers would be seen to have read it, the navigators wouldn't.

That would be solved by just giving anthologies away for free since they are basically just advertising for other things the contributors have written.

You could just read it through once, then skip one page during successive readings. I think there's usually one page somewhere that the reader could live without, which would be especially true if the book had pages that only read "Part 2" or whatever. Plus since pages in ebooks (on some devices) are not numbered, but variable based on font size etc, they would need to figure out a way to determine a "page," and exclude the copyright page, or the acknowledgements page (or glossary, afterword, "about the author" page etc etc), from the count. Otherwise you could just skip those and sidestep the limit. Once again, it would be a huge hassle to make working DRM in this regard, imo.

It would make much more sense for them to apply time limits, like one year or whatever. Also doubtful, but certainly easier than trying to measure complete readings.

Edit: top that off with the likelihood that most consumers only read a book once, with a sharply declining percentage representing those who read it twice, three times etc. I don't see a real cost vs. benefit advantage in applying limitations to what would be a minority of buyers, especially since that re-reading minority would often forgo buying the limited books to begin with.

Worldwalker · 03-14-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

I think they're being conned by the companies that sell DRM "solutions". It's a bit like bringing in an army of consultants to look for efficiency savings and spending more on their fees than you would be able to save in 20+ years. They probably do that as well — it's the sort of thing that shareholders demand.

I've seen efficiency consultants defined as people who steal your watch and tell you the time. Given what I've seen of the breed, I'll believe it.

Kitabi · 03-14-2011, 02:51 PM

I think books may go the way of the DVD. Before you pounce on me, the operative word here is "may".

The content owning companies have understood that once they sell their content on some media, it is bound to be copied, resold or passed on in some form that results in no profit for them. The solution is to keep content within walls and serve it per use. So, movies, TV shows etc are moving to streaming dominant models. Eventually, all video content may become streaming only.

The big reason the music industry escaped this was because Apple sided with the ownership model and Apple was the key in selling content legally in the face of all that piracy.

IMHO if there is to be a "per use" limitation on books, it would be through subscription models.

03-14-2011, 02:51 PM	#90
Kitabi Connoisseur Posts: 77 Karma: 66 Join Date: Nov 2010 Device: Nook	The new trend in content management I think books may go the way of the DVD. Before you pounce on me, the operative word here is "may". The content owning companies have understood that once they sell their content on some media, it is bound to be copied, resold or passed on in some form that results in no profit for them. The solution is to keep content within walls and serve it per use. So, movies, TV shows etc are moving to streaming dominant models. Eventually, all video content may become streaming only. The big reason the music industry escaped this was because Apple sided with the ownership model and Apple was the key in selling content legally in the face of all that piracy. IMHO if there is to be a "per use" limitation on books, it would be through subscription models.

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03-14-2011, 10:50 AM	#77
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	Well, I've always thought I'd just do something about it when the time comes since for the moment, I can't imagine reading on anything else but a kindle. Still, might be better to be safe than sorry...But after the DRM is stripped, I'd have to sideload the book now, yes?

03-14-2011, 10:52 AM	#78
abookreader Wizard Posts: 1,516 Karma: 2567610 Join Date: Oct 2009 Device: Kindles - Keyboard, Fire, 2-US, iPhone, iPAD	If it is downloaded and stored on your Kindle it is safe As long as you still own your Kindle As long as your Kindle is still operational As long as you don't wish to read it on another device or alternately As long as a method to remove the DRM remains valid Then you get into As long as Amazon has kept their promise to store it in your Cloud archive (books disappeared a couple of months ago and Amazon said nothing to the buyers. It was up to them to discover the books were missing and then contact Amazon) As long as Amazon is a viable company and as long as Amazon keeps their promise to never again remove content from a person's Kindle (a little like God and Noah and the Rainbow) Much easier to strip as you buy and then back-up. Then you really don't have to worry so much about what Amazon is up to (The term "Amazon" is pretty much inter-changeable with other retailers in this post. People can and have "lost" their books from other stores just as easily.)

03-14-2011, 10:58 AM	#79
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	Hmm guess you're right. Good thing calibre is good at managing my books for me as I am a messy person and just useless with manual archiving. And darn, if only businessmen had noble intentions. Ah well.

03-14-2011, 11:58 AM	#84
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	Woah, death penalty? Harsh! I think corruption should carry a death penalty (as it does in Singapore)

03-14-2011, 12:42 PM	#87
wyndslash Wizard Posts: 2,951 Karma: 3000001 Join Date: Feb 2011 Device: Kindle 3 wifi, Kindle Fire	As I understand it (based on my sister who lives there), they are paid vey highly so that if a politician still tries to cheat and steal money and be corrupt, that it may warrant a death penalty. I have yet to see it be enforced, though.